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Re: [ematthew] Evangelical Matthew?

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  • Jeffrey B. Gibson
    ... FWIW, there was an entire book put out in the New Testament Library Series many years ago entitled _The Meaning of Fishers of Men _. Don t know off hand
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 12 7:37 PM
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      LARRY SWAIN wrote:

      >
      > --- LeeEdgarTyler@... wrote:
      > > In a message dated 4/12/2003 8:57:21 PM Central
      > > Standard Time,
      > > theswain@... writes:
      >
      > > >
      > >
      > > It's be difficult for me to perceive the "fishers of
      > > men" pericope as
      > > anything but evangelical, although I confess that
      > > perception could be
      > > colored. I can, however, see the sower & seed,
      > > etc., as perhaps metaphorical
      > > in other directions.
      > >
      > > Ed Tyler
      >
      > Ed,
      >
      > I know exactly what you mean. In another context in
      > recent months, I was forced to ask myself though, what
      > would a first century Galilean Jew hear when Jesus
      > says "I will make you fishers of men"? Would he
      > really hear "I will make you preachers of kingdom
      > converting the unbelieving?" I doubt it, but that
      > doesn't mean I understand the phrase any better.

      FWIW, there was an entire book put out in the New Testament Library
      Series many years ago entitled _The Meaning of "Fishers of Men"_. Don't
      know off hand who the author was, and I'm too lazy right now to look at
      the Word Commentary where it would probably be listed.

      Yours,

      Jeffrey
      --

      Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.)

      1500 W. Pratt Blvd. #1
      Chicago, IL 60626

      jgibson000@...



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • LARRY SWAIN
      Full details on the books are: Wuellner, Wilhelm The Meaning of Fishers of Men Philadelphia Westminster Press 1967. Has anyone read it?
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 12 8:21 PM
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        Full details on the books are:

        Wuellner, Wilhelm
        The Meaning of Fishers of Men
        Philadelphia Westminster Press 1967.

        Has anyone read it?
      • MillerJimE@AOL.COM
        I think we need to differentiate between the gospel of Matthew as a late 1st century text and its sources which may go back to Jesus and/or a strictly
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 12 9:38 PM
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          I think we need to differentiate between the gospel of Matthew as a late
          1st century text and its sources which may go back to Jesus and/or a strictly
          palestinian Jewish context. Matthew, written in the diaspora for members of
          a church which had been evangelizing for some time probably understood these
          quotes evangelically. However, in a palestinian Jewish context they could
          have a different meaning.
          Jim Miller
        • Munachi E. Ezeogu
          I have not read Wuellner s book, but a study available at Creighton University website has this to say about it: Among the sources that construct a view a
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 13 12:54 PM
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            I have not read Wuellner's book, but a study available at Creighton
            University website has this to say about it:

            "Among the sources that construct a view a (sic) discipleship from Mt 4:19,
            Wuellner (1967) writes that this passage implies that Jesus' role is that of
            both teacher and prophet. Jesus offering the position of "fisherman"
            connotes Jesus' granting authority in teaching and judgment to his
            disciples, and, Wuellner argues, to his church. Wuellner further discusses
            fishing in two lights: that of Jesus' teachings as the new Torah and that of
            Jesus as the new Moses. These two views are linked by the concept of
            men-fishing: the fishing that occurs in the church by men-fishers and God's
            judgment."

            The article which has some useful views and biblography can be accessed at
            http://moses.creighton.edu/malina/ntstudy/Schwartz.htm.

            Ernest M. Ezeogu
            (Toronto School of Theology)


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          • Matthew Estrada
            ... Hello Larry, I posted my thoughts on the last few verses of Matthew s gospel on Crosstalk2 which you might find interesting. I believe they show that
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 13 6:31 PM
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              --- "Larry J. Swain" <theswain@...> wrote:
              > Our discussion a couple of months ago on the
              > non-evangelical nature of the last verses of the
              > gospel, and discussing things in my Bible as
              > Literature class that I teach, and now I wonder
              > about some of the other passages that have
              > traditionally been taken as "evangelical" in
              > nature: are they?


              Hello Larry,

              I posted my thoughts on the last few verses of
              Matthew's gospel on Crosstalk2 which you might find
              interesting. I believe they show that Matthew was
              evangelical in nature. He tried depicting Jesus both
              as Moses who delivers his people from a greater
              slavery than what the Israelites had formerly known
              via a greater Exodus than what the Israelites had
              formerly experienced, and as God who sends his
              followers out to announce his salvation even as God
              sent Moses out to announce his earlier salvation. You
              can reference this post by going to the following url:

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/crosstalk2/message/13056




              =====

              Matthew Estrada

              113 Laurel Court

              Peachtree City, Ga 30269


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            • john Paul
              anyone s coptic or german skills up to evaluating this? http://www.nb.no/baser/schoyen/4/4.1/413.html MS 2650 CODEX SCHØYEN BIBLE: MATTHEW MS in Mesokemic
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 14 9:19 AM
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                anyone's coptic or german skills up to evaluating
                this?

                http://www.nb.no/baser/schoyen/4/4.1/413.html

                MS 2650

                CODEX SCH�YEN


                BIBLE: MATTHEW
                MS in Mesokemic (Middle Egyptian or Oxyrhynchite
                dialect) on papyrus, Oxyrhynchus region, Egypt, 1st
                half of 4th c., 39 ff. (- ca. 6 ff.), 23x20 cm, single
                column, (18x14-16 cm), 25-28 lines in a fine regular
                Coptic uncial.

                Context: MSS 2648, 2649, 2651 and 14 ff. of Isaiah (in
                Mesokemic, ca. 300) were found tipped in among the
                leaves of the present codex, which originally had ca.
                45 ff.
                Probably from the same hoard as the Chester Beatty
                papyri, now in Dublin: Chester Beatty Library.

                Provenance: 1. Monastery in the Oxyrhynchus region,
                Egypt (4th c. - ca. 1930); 2. Antiquity dealer,
                Alexandria (ca. 1930); 3. Private collector, Z�rich.

                Commentary: The text opens at ch. 5:38 and goes more
                or less continuously to the end.

                The present codex is the earliest Matthew in any
                Coptic dialect. The 11 chapters, 6-9, 13-17, 22 and
                28, and a great number of verses elsewhere, are in
                addition the earliest witnesses to these parts of the
                Bible. The text is unique, not following any Coptic
                nor Greek manuscripts known of Matthew.

                Prof. Dr. Hans-Martin Schenke in his editio princeps
                of the text, has named the manuscript Codex Sch�yen,
                with the siglum Mae 2. (siglum Mae 1 being the Scheide
                Codex of 5th c.) His conclusions are that the text is
                not representing a free text transmission in relation
                to all the other extant Greek and Coptic manuscripts
                of Matthew, but that it is a correct translation of an
                entirely different Gospel of Matthew. There is only
                one other Gospel of Matthew known, the lost Hebrew
                Gospel of the Jewish Christians mentioned by the
                church fathers. This would have been the Hebrew
                exemplar of the Greek translation the present
                manuscript is based upon. Actually the famous
                statement by Papias that the Hebrew Gospel of Matthew
                was translated into Greek several times (Eusebius,
                hist. eccl. III, 39, 16), now come in a new light. Due
                to a series of textual differences between Codex
                Sch�yen and the Canonical Gospel, it appears that both
                Gospels derive from different versions of the Hebrew
                Matthew. The consequence is that the relationship
                among the Synoptic Gospels has to be entirely
                re-evaluated, causing far-reaching and dramatic
                consequences for New Testament research.

                Published: Hans-Martin Schenke in the series
                Manuscripts in The Sch�yen Collection, ed. Jens
                Braarvig; Coptic Papyri, vol. I. Oslo 2001.




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