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Re: [emacs-nxml-mode] Re: nxml-mode, docbook, xinclude

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  • Dave Pawson
    ... 4.5 is the current Oasis standard. As I said, either keep up or simply tell people where docbook is. How many schemas are you going to try and manage?
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 7, 2009
      2009/8/7 Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:

      >>> Could you please explain how we should handle this in Emacs? (I have
      >>> added Emacs Devel to the discussion.)
      >>
      >> Just my point. I don't think this should be an emacs issue
      >> If you want docbook schema, html or any other schema
      >> the end user should pick up that schema from the source
      >> of that schema.
      >
      > Thanks. I see.
      >
      > I really think they should be part of Emacs distribution (as they are
      > now) and wondered whether you have some suggestion regarding Docbook
      > 4.5 and 5.0. There is now a schema for Docbook 4.2 in Emacs 22.

      4.5 is the current Oasis standard.
      As I said, either keep up or simply tell people where docbook is.
      How many schemas are you going to try and manage?

      Suggest, if you want to track docbook schemas, you point people
      to the appropriate place, not fall n versions behind.




      >
      > I know nothing about how to distinguish those in Emacs.

      Perhaps that's another good reason not to attempt to provide
      docbook schemas for the emacs package you're delivering?

      How should the
      > schemas be named so that Emacs can pick the right version according to
      > the spec in the Docbook xml file?

      You need to see nxml-mode... the original.
      James explained it there.




      -
      Dave Pawson
      XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
      Docbook FAQ.
      http://www.dpawson.co.uk
    • Lennart Borgman
      ... It is a very good point to show them where to get the newest version since Emacs and docbook schemas might not always be in sync. I think that should be in
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 7, 2009
        On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Dave Pawson<dave.pawson@...> wrote:
        > 2009/8/7 Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:
        >
        >>>> Could you please explain how we should handle this in Emacs? (I have
        >>>> added Emacs Devel to the discussion.)
        >>>
        >>> Just my point. I don't think this should be an emacs issue
        >>> If you want docbook schema, html or any other schema
        >>> the end user should pick up that schema from the source
        >>> of that schema.
        >>
        >> Thanks. I see.
        >>
        >> I really think they should be part of Emacs distribution (as they are
        >> now) and wondered whether you have some suggestion regarding Docbook
        >> 4.5 and 5.0. There is now a schema for Docbook 4.2 in Emacs 22.
        >
        > 4.5 is the current Oasis standard.
        > As I said, either keep up or simply tell people where docbook is.
        > How many schemas are you going to try and manage?
        >
        > Suggest, if you want to track docbook schemas, you point people
        > to the appropriate place, not fall n versions behind.


        It is a very good point to show them where to get the newest version
        since Emacs and docbook schemas might not always be in sync. I think
        that should be in the documentation for nxml-mode in Emacs.

        But I think including schemas with Emacs is also very important. So I
        would suggest checking this for every new Emacs release (to Emacs
        Devel: Can we please put this in the to-do for new releases?).



        >> I know nothing about how to distinguish those in Emacs.
        >
        > Perhaps that's another good reason not to attempt to provide
        > docbook schemas for the emacs package you're delivering?
        >
        > How should the
        >> schemas be named so that Emacs can pick the right version according to
        >> the spec in the Docbook xml file?
        >
        > You need to see nxml-mode... the original.
        > James explained it there.


        Could you perhaps make a short summary? How do you yourself handle
        this for example?
      • Dave Pawson
        ... http://www.dpawson.co.uk/relaxng/nxml/schemaloc.html#d574e168 Full explanation in the documentation provided with the original nxml-mode from JC -- Dave
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 7, 2009
          2009/8/7 Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:

          >
          > Could you perhaps make a short summary? How do you yourself handle
          > this for example?
          >

          http://www.dpawson.co.uk/relaxng/nxml/schemaloc.html#d574e168


          Full explanation in the documentation provided with
          the original nxml-mode from JC

          --
          Dave Pawson
          XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
          Docbook FAQ.
          http://www.dpawson.co.uk
        • Lennart Borgman
          ... Thanks. So a doctypePublicId could be used to distinguish different Docbook versions? On the OASIS site I see that they do not distinguish rng files for
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 7, 2009
            On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Dave Pawson<dave.pawson@...> wrote:
            > 2009/8/7 Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:
            >
            >>
            >> Could you perhaps make a short summary? How do you yourself handle
            >> this for example?
            >>
            >
            > http://www.dpawson.co.uk/relaxng/nxml/schemaloc.html#d574e168


            Thanks. So a doctypePublicId could be used to distinguish different
            Docbook versions?

            On the OASIS site I see that they do not distinguish rng files for
            different Docbook versions by file name, but by file path/location. Is
            that a convenient way in nxml-mode? Can you use for example

            <typeId id="DocBook4.5" uri="docbook/dokbook4.5.rnc"/>



            > Full explanation in the documentation provided with
            > the original nxml-mode from JC
            >
            > --
            > Dave Pawson
            > XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
            > Docbook FAQ.
            > http://www.dpawson.co.uk
            >
          • wyuenho
            ... It seems that the xinclude grammar is directly merged into the docbook grammar. But xinclude is meant to be general purpose, how do people validate other
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 7, 2009
              --- In emacs-nxml-mode@yahoogroups.com, Dave Pawson <dave.pawson@...> wrote:
              It seems that the xinclude grammar is directly merged into the docbook grammar. But xinclude is meant to be general purpose, how do people validate other xinclude documents if there's not a separate xinclude grammar that's easily extensible for other grammars?

              >
              > 2009/8/7 Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:
              >
              > >> You should be using the docbook v5 schema.
              > >> nxml-mode has that as valid.
              > >
              > > But that is only included in Emacs 23, not the standalone nxml-mode
              > > that Emacs 22 users download.
              >
              >
              > The question was about docbook?
              > I don't think even your nxml-mode includes that (nor should it?)
              >
              > docbook is available from sourceforge. With the schema
              > for v5, from which the rnc can be added to nxml-mode
              > with no problem.
              >
              >
              > HTH
              >
              >
              > --
              > Dave Pawson
              > XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
              > Docbook FAQ.
              > http://www.dpawson.co.uk
              >
            • Dave Pawson
              ... It is. It is also an xml namespaced element like any other? Hence it needs to be declared in the schema for the instance you re generating using nxml-mode.
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 7, 2009
                2009/8/7 wyuenho <wyuenho@...>:
                > --- In emacs-nxml-mode@yahoogroups.com, Dave Pawson <dave.pawson@...> wrote:
                > It seems that the xinclude grammar is directly merged into the docbook grammar. But xinclude is meant to be general purpose, how do people validate other xinclude documents if there's not a separate xinclude grammar that's easily extensible for other grammars?


                It is. It is also an xml namespaced element like any other?
                Hence it needs to be declared in the schema for the instance you're generating
                using nxml-mode.

                Take the model from docbookxi.rnc


                HTH



                --
                Dave Pawson
                XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
                Docbook FAQ.
                http://www.dpawson.co.uk
              • Steinar Bang
                ... As expressed in a DOCTYPE declaration of a document? Yes, it can. I ve used that a lot for legacy formats. You can also match on the document element
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 23, 2009
                  >>>>> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:

                  > Thanks. So a doctypePublicId could be used to distinguish different
                  > Docbook versions?

                  As expressed in a DOCTYPE declaration of a document? Yes, it can.

                  I've used that a lot for legacy formats.

                  You can also match on the document element (i.e. the outermost element
                  in an XML document), in two way:
                  - local name, with an optional prefix
                  - document element default namespace
                  (but, curiously enough, not document element default name space and
                  local name)

                  And you can match on a processing instruction.

                  And you can match on file URI, with wildcards (you can e.g. match on
                  extensions).


                  > On the OASIS site I see that they do not distinguish rng files for
                  > different Docbook versions by file name, but by file path/location. Is
                  > that a convenient way in nxml-mode? Can you use for example

                  > <typeId id="DocBook4.5" uri="docbook/dokbook4.5.rnc"/>

                  Without having actually tried it, I'm guessing yes. I have everything
                  in a flat structure (how many schemas do one need? I have maven, and
                  ant, and something called CPE, that I can no longer remember what is,
                  and a custom version of docbook, all in a single directory, with a
                  schemas.xml file), and no time to experiment.
                • Lennart Borgman
                  Thanks Steinar, I will look at this more later.
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 23, 2009
                    Thanks Steinar, I will look at this more later.


                    On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 8:21 PM, Steinar Bang<sb@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >>>>>> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:
                    >
                    >> Thanks. So a doctypePublicId could be used to distinguish different
                    >> Docbook versions?
                    >
                    > As expressed in a DOCTYPE declaration of a document? Yes, it can.
                    >
                    > I've used that a lot for legacy formats.
                    >
                    > You can also match on the document element (i.e. the outermost element
                    > in an XML document), in two way:
                    > - local name, with an optional prefix
                    > - document element default namespace
                    > (but, curiously enough, not document element default name space and
                    > local name)
                    >
                    > And you can match on a processing instruction.
                    >
                    > And you can match on file URI, with wildcards (you can e.g. match on
                    > extensions).
                    >
                    >> On the OASIS site I see that they do not distinguish rng files for
                    >> different Docbook versions by file name, but by file path/location. Is
                    >> that a convenient way in nxml-mode? Can you use for example
                    >
                    >> <typeId id="DocBook4.5" uri="docbook/dokbook4.5.rnc"/>
                    >
                    > Without having actually tried it, I'm guessing yes. I have everything
                    > in a flat structure (how many schemas do one need? I have maven, and
                    > ant, and something called CPE, that I can no longer remember what is,
                    > and a custom version of docbook, all in a single directory, with a
                    > schemas.xml file), and no time to experiment.
                    >
                    >
                  • Dave Pawson
                    ... This might be more appropriate on the docbook-apps mailing list? Certainly for the schema related questions. regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 23, 2009
                      2009/8/23 Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:
                      > Thanks Steinar, I will look at this more later.

                      This might be more appropriate on the docbook-apps mailing list?
                      Certainly for the schema related questions.

                      regards


                      --
                      Dave Pawson
                      XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
                      Docbook FAQ.
                      http://www.dpawson.co.uk
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