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Re: [emacs-nxml-mode] Re: nxml-mode, docbook, xinclude

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  • Lennart Borgman
    ... But that is only included in Emacs 23, not the standalone nxml-mode that Emacs 22 users download.
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 7, 2009
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      On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Dave Pawson<dave.pawson@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > 2009/8/7 wyuenho <wyuenho@...>:
      >
      >> --- In emacs-nxml-mode@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Colascione <danc@...>
      >> wrote:
      >>>
      >>> On Monday 09 June 2008, rossburton42 wrote:
      >>> > I'm using nxml-mode to validate my Docbook and so on as I write, but
      >>> > I've hit a small annoyance.  In my current document I'm using XInclude
      >>> > to bring in source code snippets but nxml is for obviously reasons
      >>> > marking <xi:include .../> as invalid.
      >
      > You should be using the docbook v5 schema.
      > nxml-mode has that as valid.

      But that is only included in Emacs 23, not the standalone nxml-mode
      that Emacs 22 users download.


      >> I've rewritten the Xinclude grammar in nXhtml to conform to the official
      >> Xinclude XSD.
      >
      > Already done by the docbook group at Oasis.
      >
      > regards
      >
      > --
      > Dave Pawson
      > XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
      > Docbook FAQ.
      > http://www.dpawson.co.uk
      >
    • Dave Pawson
      ... The question was about docbook? I don t think even your nxml-mode includes that (nor should it?) docbook is available from sourceforge. With the schema for
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 7, 2009
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        2009/8/7 Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:

        >> You should be using the docbook v5 schema.
        >> nxml-mode has that as valid.
        >
        > But that is only included in Emacs 23, not the standalone nxml-mode
        > that Emacs 22 users download.


        The question was about docbook?
        I don't think even your nxml-mode includes that (nor should it?)

        docbook is available from sourceforge. With the schema
        for v5, from which the rnc can be added to nxml-mode
        with no problem.


        HTH


        --
        Dave Pawson
        XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
        Docbook FAQ.
        http://www.dpawson.co.uk
      • Lennart Borgman
        ... It is included in the nxml-mode that comes with Emacs 23.
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 7, 2009
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          On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 12:49 PM, Dave Pawson<dave.pawson@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > 2009/8/7 Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:
          >
          >>> You should be using the docbook v5 schema.
          >>> nxml-mode has that as valid.
          >>
          >> But that is only included in Emacs 23, not the standalone nxml-mode
          >> that Emacs 22 users download.
          >
          > The question was about docbook?
          > I don't think even your nxml-mode includes that (nor should it?)


          It is included in the nxml-mode that comes with Emacs 23.


          > docbook is available from sourceforge. With the schema
          > for v5, from which the rnc can be added to nxml-mode
          > with no problem.
          >
          > HTH
          >
          > --
          > Dave Pawson
          > XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
          > Docbook FAQ.
          > http://www.dpawson.co.uk
          >
        • Dave Pawson
          ... Then either pick up both versions, 4.5 and 5.0 (and keep them up to date I guess) or link to where the schemas can be picked up. -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 7, 2009
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            2009/8/7 Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:

            >> The question was about docbook?
            >> I don't think even your nxml-mode includes that (nor should it?)
            >
            >
            > It is included in the nxml-mode that comes with Emacs 23.
            >
            >
            >> docbook is available from sourceforge. With the schema
            >> for v5, from which the rnc can be added to nxml-mode
            >> with no problem.

            Then either pick up both versions, 4.5 and 5.0 (and keep
            them up to date I guess) or link to where the schemas
            can be picked up.




            --
            Dave Pawson
            XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
            Docbook FAQ.
            http://www.dpawson.co.uk
          • Lennart Borgman
            ... Could you please explain how we should handle this in Emacs? (I have added Emacs Devel to the discussion.)
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 7, 2009
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              On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Dave Pawson<dave.pawson@...> wrote:

              >> It is included in the nxml-mode that comes with Emacs 23.
              >>
              >>
              >>> docbook is available from sourceforge. With the schema
              >>> for v5, from which the rnc can be added to nxml-mode
              >>> with no problem.
              >
              > Then either pick up both versions, 4.5 and 5.0 (and keep
              > them up to date I guess) or link to where the schemas
              > can be picked up.

              Could you please explain how we should handle this in Emacs? (I have
              added Emacs Devel to the discussion.)
            • Dave Pawson
              ... Just my point. I don t think this should be an emacs issue If you want docbook schema, html or any other schema the end user should pick up that schema
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 7, 2009
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                2009/8/7 Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:
                > On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Dave Pawson<dave.pawson@...> wrote:
                >
                >>> It is included in the nxml-mode that comes with Emacs 23.
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>> docbook is available from sourceforge. With the schema
                >>>> for v5, from which the rnc can be added to nxml-mode
                >>>> with no problem.
                >>
                >> Then either pick up both versions, 4.5 and 5.0 (and keep
                >> them up to date I guess) or link to where the schemas
                >> can be picked up.
                >
                > Could you please explain how we should handle this in Emacs? (I have
                > added Emacs Devel to the discussion.)

                Just my point. I don't think this should be an emacs issue
                If you want docbook schema, html or any other schema
                the end user should pick up that schema from the source
                of that schema.

                Hence my earlier comments.

                I stated, the docbook v5 schema includes xinclude within it.

                which is what the OP wanted, or was missing



                --
                Dave Pawson
                XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
                Docbook FAQ.
                http://www.dpawson.co.uk
              • Lennart Borgman
                ... Thanks. I see. I really think they should be part of Emacs distribution (as they are now) and wondered whether you have some suggestion regarding Docbook
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 7, 2009
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                  On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Dave Pawson<dave.pawson@...> wrote:
                  > 2009/8/7 Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:
                  >> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Dave Pawson<dave.pawson@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >>>> It is included in the nxml-mode that comes with Emacs 23.
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>>> docbook is available from sourceforge. With the schema
                  >>>>> for v5, from which the rnc can be added to nxml-mode
                  >>>>> with no problem.
                  >>>
                  >>> Then either pick up both versions, 4.5 and 5.0 (and keep
                  >>> them up to date I guess) or link to where the schemas
                  >>> can be picked up.
                  >>
                  >> Could you please explain how we should handle this in Emacs? (I have
                  >> added Emacs Devel to the discussion.)
                  >
                  > Just my point. I don't think this should be an emacs issue
                  > If you want docbook schema, html or any other schema
                  > the end user should pick up that schema from the source
                  > of that schema.

                  Thanks. I see.

                  I really think they should be part of Emacs distribution (as they are
                  now) and wondered whether you have some suggestion regarding Docbook
                  4.5 and 5.0. There is now a schema for Docbook 4.2 in Emacs 22.

                  I know nothing about how to distinguish those in Emacs. How should the
                  schemas be named so that Emacs can pick the right version according to
                  the spec in the Docbook xml file?



                  > Hence my earlier comments.
                  >
                  > I stated, the docbook v5 schema includes xinclude within it.
                  >
                  > which is what the OP wanted, or was missing
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Dave Pawson
                  > XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
                  > Docbook FAQ.
                  > http://www.dpawson.co.uk
                  >
                • Dave Pawson
                  ... 4.5 is the current Oasis standard. As I said, either keep up or simply tell people where docbook is. How many schemas are you going to try and manage?
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 7, 2009
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                    2009/8/7 Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:

                    >>> Could you please explain how we should handle this in Emacs? (I have
                    >>> added Emacs Devel to the discussion.)
                    >>
                    >> Just my point. I don't think this should be an emacs issue
                    >> If you want docbook schema, html or any other schema
                    >> the end user should pick up that schema from the source
                    >> of that schema.
                    >
                    > Thanks. I see.
                    >
                    > I really think they should be part of Emacs distribution (as they are
                    > now) and wondered whether you have some suggestion regarding Docbook
                    > 4.5 and 5.0. There is now a schema for Docbook 4.2 in Emacs 22.

                    4.5 is the current Oasis standard.
                    As I said, either keep up or simply tell people where docbook is.
                    How many schemas are you going to try and manage?

                    Suggest, if you want to track docbook schemas, you point people
                    to the appropriate place, not fall n versions behind.




                    >
                    > I know nothing about how to distinguish those in Emacs.

                    Perhaps that's another good reason not to attempt to provide
                    docbook schemas for the emacs package you're delivering?

                    How should the
                    > schemas be named so that Emacs can pick the right version according to
                    > the spec in the Docbook xml file?

                    You need to see nxml-mode... the original.
                    James explained it there.




                    -
                    Dave Pawson
                    XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
                    Docbook FAQ.
                    http://www.dpawson.co.uk
                  • Lennart Borgman
                    ... It is a very good point to show them where to get the newest version since Emacs and docbook schemas might not always be in sync. I think that should be in
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 7, 2009
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                      On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Dave Pawson<dave.pawson@...> wrote:
                      > 2009/8/7 Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:
                      >
                      >>>> Could you please explain how we should handle this in Emacs? (I have
                      >>>> added Emacs Devel to the discussion.)
                      >>>
                      >>> Just my point. I don't think this should be an emacs issue
                      >>> If you want docbook schema, html or any other schema
                      >>> the end user should pick up that schema from the source
                      >>> of that schema.
                      >>
                      >> Thanks. I see.
                      >>
                      >> I really think they should be part of Emacs distribution (as they are
                      >> now) and wondered whether you have some suggestion regarding Docbook
                      >> 4.5 and 5.0. There is now a schema for Docbook 4.2 in Emacs 22.
                      >
                      > 4.5 is the current Oasis standard.
                      > As I said, either keep up or simply tell people where docbook is.
                      > How many schemas are you going to try and manage?
                      >
                      > Suggest, if you want to track docbook schemas, you point people
                      > to the appropriate place, not fall n versions behind.


                      It is a very good point to show them where to get the newest version
                      since Emacs and docbook schemas might not always be in sync. I think
                      that should be in the documentation for nxml-mode in Emacs.

                      But I think including schemas with Emacs is also very important. So I
                      would suggest checking this for every new Emacs release (to Emacs
                      Devel: Can we please put this in the to-do for new releases?).



                      >> I know nothing about how to distinguish those in Emacs.
                      >
                      > Perhaps that's another good reason not to attempt to provide
                      > docbook schemas for the emacs package you're delivering?
                      >
                      > How should the
                      >> schemas be named so that Emacs can pick the right version according to
                      >> the spec in the Docbook xml file?
                      >
                      > You need to see nxml-mode... the original.
                      > James explained it there.


                      Could you perhaps make a short summary? How do you yourself handle
                      this for example?
                    • Dave Pawson
                      ... http://www.dpawson.co.uk/relaxng/nxml/schemaloc.html#d574e168 Full explanation in the documentation provided with the original nxml-mode from JC -- Dave
                      Message 10 of 24 , Aug 7, 2009
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                        2009/8/7 Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:

                        >
                        > Could you perhaps make a short summary? How do you yourself handle
                        > this for example?
                        >

                        http://www.dpawson.co.uk/relaxng/nxml/schemaloc.html#d574e168


                        Full explanation in the documentation provided with
                        the original nxml-mode from JC

                        --
                        Dave Pawson
                        XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
                        Docbook FAQ.
                        http://www.dpawson.co.uk
                      • Lennart Borgman
                        ... Thanks. So a doctypePublicId could be used to distinguish different Docbook versions? On the OASIS site I see that they do not distinguish rng files for
                        Message 11 of 24 , Aug 7, 2009
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                          On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Dave Pawson<dave.pawson@...> wrote:
                          > 2009/8/7 Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:
                          >
                          >>
                          >> Could you perhaps make a short summary? How do you yourself handle
                          >> this for example?
                          >>
                          >
                          > http://www.dpawson.co.uk/relaxng/nxml/schemaloc.html#d574e168


                          Thanks. So a doctypePublicId could be used to distinguish different
                          Docbook versions?

                          On the OASIS site I see that they do not distinguish rng files for
                          different Docbook versions by file name, but by file path/location. Is
                          that a convenient way in nxml-mode? Can you use for example

                          <typeId id="DocBook4.5" uri="docbook/dokbook4.5.rnc"/>



                          > Full explanation in the documentation provided with
                          > the original nxml-mode from JC
                          >
                          > --
                          > Dave Pawson
                          > XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
                          > Docbook FAQ.
                          > http://www.dpawson.co.uk
                          >
                        • wyuenho
                          ... It seems that the xinclude grammar is directly merged into the docbook grammar. But xinclude is meant to be general purpose, how do people validate other
                          Message 12 of 24 , Aug 7, 2009
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                            --- In emacs-nxml-mode@yahoogroups.com, Dave Pawson <dave.pawson@...> wrote:
                            It seems that the xinclude grammar is directly merged into the docbook grammar. But xinclude is meant to be general purpose, how do people validate other xinclude documents if there's not a separate xinclude grammar that's easily extensible for other grammars?

                            >
                            > 2009/8/7 Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:
                            >
                            > >> You should be using the docbook v5 schema.
                            > >> nxml-mode has that as valid.
                            > >
                            > > But that is only included in Emacs 23, not the standalone nxml-mode
                            > > that Emacs 22 users download.
                            >
                            >
                            > The question was about docbook?
                            > I don't think even your nxml-mode includes that (nor should it?)
                            >
                            > docbook is available from sourceforge. With the schema
                            > for v5, from which the rnc can be added to nxml-mode
                            > with no problem.
                            >
                            >
                            > HTH
                            >
                            >
                            > --
                            > Dave Pawson
                            > XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
                            > Docbook FAQ.
                            > http://www.dpawson.co.uk
                            >
                          • Dave Pawson
                            ... It is. It is also an xml namespaced element like any other? Hence it needs to be declared in the schema for the instance you re generating using nxml-mode.
                            Message 13 of 24 , Aug 7, 2009
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                              2009/8/7 wyuenho <wyuenho@...>:
                              > --- In emacs-nxml-mode@yahoogroups.com, Dave Pawson <dave.pawson@...> wrote:
                              > It seems that the xinclude grammar is directly merged into the docbook grammar. But xinclude is meant to be general purpose, how do people validate other xinclude documents if there's not a separate xinclude grammar that's easily extensible for other grammars?


                              It is. It is also an xml namespaced element like any other?
                              Hence it needs to be declared in the schema for the instance you're generating
                              using nxml-mode.

                              Take the model from docbookxi.rnc


                              HTH



                              --
                              Dave Pawson
                              XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
                              Docbook FAQ.
                              http://www.dpawson.co.uk
                            • Steinar Bang
                              ... As expressed in a DOCTYPE declaration of a document? Yes, it can. I ve used that a lot for legacy formats. You can also match on the document element
                              Message 14 of 24 , Aug 23, 2009
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                                >>>>> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:

                                > Thanks. So a doctypePublicId could be used to distinguish different
                                > Docbook versions?

                                As expressed in a DOCTYPE declaration of a document? Yes, it can.

                                I've used that a lot for legacy formats.

                                You can also match on the document element (i.e. the outermost element
                                in an XML document), in two way:
                                - local name, with an optional prefix
                                - document element default namespace
                                (but, curiously enough, not document element default name space and
                                local name)

                                And you can match on a processing instruction.

                                And you can match on file URI, with wildcards (you can e.g. match on
                                extensions).


                                > On the OASIS site I see that they do not distinguish rng files for
                                > different Docbook versions by file name, but by file path/location. Is
                                > that a convenient way in nxml-mode? Can you use for example

                                > <typeId id="DocBook4.5" uri="docbook/dokbook4.5.rnc"/>

                                Without having actually tried it, I'm guessing yes. I have everything
                                in a flat structure (how many schemas do one need? I have maven, and
                                ant, and something called CPE, that I can no longer remember what is,
                                and a custom version of docbook, all in a single directory, with a
                                schemas.xml file), and no time to experiment.
                              • Lennart Borgman
                                Thanks Steinar, I will look at this more later.
                                Message 15 of 24 , Aug 23, 2009
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                                  Thanks Steinar, I will look at this more later.


                                  On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 8:21 PM, Steinar Bang<sb@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >>>>>> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:
                                  >
                                  >> Thanks. So a doctypePublicId could be used to distinguish different
                                  >> Docbook versions?
                                  >
                                  > As expressed in a DOCTYPE declaration of a document? Yes, it can.
                                  >
                                  > I've used that a lot for legacy formats.
                                  >
                                  > You can also match on the document element (i.e. the outermost element
                                  > in an XML document), in two way:
                                  > - local name, with an optional prefix
                                  > - document element default namespace
                                  > (but, curiously enough, not document element default name space and
                                  > local name)
                                  >
                                  > And you can match on a processing instruction.
                                  >
                                  > And you can match on file URI, with wildcards (you can e.g. match on
                                  > extensions).
                                  >
                                  >> On the OASIS site I see that they do not distinguish rng files for
                                  >> different Docbook versions by file name, but by file path/location. Is
                                  >> that a convenient way in nxml-mode? Can you use for example
                                  >
                                  >> <typeId id="DocBook4.5" uri="docbook/dokbook4.5.rnc"/>
                                  >
                                  > Without having actually tried it, I'm guessing yes. I have everything
                                  > in a flat structure (how many schemas do one need? I have maven, and
                                  > ant, and something called CPE, that I can no longer remember what is,
                                  > and a custom version of docbook, all in a single directory, with a
                                  > schemas.xml file), and no time to experiment.
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Dave Pawson
                                  ... This might be more appropriate on the docbook-apps mailing list? Certainly for the schema related questions. regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Aug 23, 2009
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                                    2009/8/23 Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@...>:
                                    > Thanks Steinar, I will look at this more later.

                                    This might be more appropriate on the docbook-apps mailing list?
                                    Certainly for the schema related questions.

                                    regards


                                    --
                                    Dave Pawson
                                    XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
                                    Docbook FAQ.
                                    http://www.dpawson.co.uk
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