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Re: current status

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  • Steinar Bang
    ... Well... I myself is trying to hack up something similar to those commands I miss the most from psgml. ... Not sure I understand what s meant by templating
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 27, 2006
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      >>>>> aamehl <aamehl@...>:

      > Well I don't think anything is perfect.
      > Also I remember proposing surrounding text with tags and getting a
      > solution from the list. This is definitely something that should be
      > added.

      Well... I myself is trying to hack up something similar to those
      commands I miss the most from psgml.

      > Also templating would be nice from within nxml mode.

      Not sure I understand what's meant by templating in this context...?

      > Also a css mode

      Probably not the task of nxml-mode, since css isn't XML, nor
      describable by a Relax-NG schema.

      There is a css-mode out there (available with "apt-get install css-mode"
      on debian and ubuntu systems).
    • Lennart Borgman
      ... Which css-mode is that? Could you perhaps mail me a copy?
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 28, 2006
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        Steinar Bang wrote:
        >>>>>> aamehl <aamehl@...>:
        >
        >> Well I don't think anything is perfect.
        >> Also I remember proposing surrounding text with tags and getting a
        >> solution from the list. This is definitely something that should be
        >> added.
        >
        > Well... I myself is trying to hack up something similar to those
        > commands I miss the most from psgml.
        >
        >> Also templating would be nice from within nxml mode.
        >
        > Not sure I understand what's meant by templating in this context...?
        >
        >> Also a css mode
        >
        > Probably not the task of nxml-mode, since css isn't XML, nor
        > describable by a Relax-NG schema.
        >
        > There is a css-mode out there (available with "apt-get install css-mode"
        > on debian and ubuntu systems).

        Which css-mode is that? Could you perhaps mail me a copy?
      • Steinar Bang
        ... It s this one, I think http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/software/css-mode/ The link doesn t work today, but it worked yesterday or two days ago, and the
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 28, 2006
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          >>>>> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman.073@...>:

          > Which css-mode is that?

          It's this one, I think
          http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/software/css-mode/
          The link doesn't work today, but it worked yesterday or two days ago,
          and the version number for the latest release seem to match what
          debian had (0.11, I think)

          Hm... here's a different css-mode:
          http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/css-mode.el

          > Could you perhaps mail me a copy?

          Ok. Will do.
        • Lennart Borgman
          ... There is also a wiki page where I have asked for some comparisions: http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/CascadingStyleSheetMode ... Thanks for the help.
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 28, 2006
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            Steinar Bang wrote:
            >>>>>> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman.073@...>:
            >
            >> Which css-mode is that?
            >
            > It's this one, I think
            > http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/software/css-mode/
            > The link doesn't work today, but it worked yesterday or two days ago,
            > and the version number for the latest release seem to match what
            > debian had (0.11, I think)
            >
            > Hm... here's a different css-mode:
            > http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/css-mode.el


            There is also a wiki page where I have asked for some comparisions:

            http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/CascadingStyleSheetMode



            >> Could you perhaps mail me a copy?
            >
            > Ok. Will do.


            Thanks for the help.
          • aamehl
            OOPs not what I meant: What I meant was two panes in emacs one showing the tags the other showing the html formatted with css. even nicer would be the ability
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 28, 2006
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              OOPs not what I meant:

              What I meant was two panes in emacs one showing the tags the other
              showing the html formatted with css.

              even nicer would be the ability to work in the formatted side with the
              same shortcuts as the tag side and have each update.

              Aaron

              On Thu, 2006-12-28 at 18:03 +0100, Lennart Borgman wrote:
              > Steinar Bang wrote:
              > >>>>>> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman.073@...>:
              > >
              > >> Which css-mode is that?
              > >
              > > It's this one, I think
              > > http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/software/css-mode/
              > > The link doesn't work today, but it worked yesterday or two days
              > ago,
              > > and the version number for the latest release seem to match what
              > > debian had (0.11, I think)
              > >
              > > Hm... here's a different css-mode:
              > > http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/css-mode.el
              >
              > There is also a wiki page where I have asked for some comparisions:
              >
              > http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/CascadingStyleSheetMode
              >
              > >> Could you perhaps mail me a copy?
              > >
              > > Ok. Will do.
              >
              > Thanks for the help.
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Lennart Borgman
              ... I have added some of these things to a new mode based on nxml-mode. This is for XHTML only. It is called nxhtml-mode, see
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 28, 2006
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                Lennart Borgman wrote:
                > Steinar Bang wrote:
                >>>>>>> aamehl <aamehl@...>:
                >>> Well I don't think anything is perfect.
                >>> Also I remember proposing surrounding text with tags and getting a
                >>> solution from the list. This is definitely something that should be
                >>> added.
                >> Well... I myself is trying to hack up something similar to those
                >> commands I miss the most from psgml.
                >>
                >>> Also templating would be nice from within nxml mode.
                >> Not sure I understand what's meant by templating in this context...?
                >>
                >>> Also a css mode


                I have added some of these things to a new mode based on nxml-mode. This
                is for XHTML only. It is called nxhtml-mode, see

                http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/NxhtmlMode
              • aamehl
                Is there a way to back port these features to nxml so they can be used with docbook? Thanks Aaron
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 29, 2006
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                  Is there a way to back port these features to nxml so they can be used
                  with docbook?
                  Thanks
                  Aaron

                  On Fri, 2006-12-29 at 05:04 +0100, Lennart Borgman wrote:
                  > http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/NxhtmlMode
                • Dave Pawson
                  ... No thanks. If you want it, please feel free. Please don t mix two applications. regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. http://www.dpawson.co.uk
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 29, 2006
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                    On 29/12/06, aamehl <aamehl@...> wrote:
                    > Is there a way to back port these features to nxml so they can be used
                    > with docbook?

                    No thanks. If you want it, please feel free.
                    Please don't mix two applications.


                    regards


                    --
                    Dave Pawson
                    XSLT XSL-FO FAQ.
                    http://www.dpawson.co.uk
                  • Lennart Borgman
                    I am not sure if any of them would be useful with docbook. Some of the features are implemented as separate elisp files and could maybe be used. Nxhtml mode
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 29, 2006
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                      I am not sure if any of them would be useful with docbook. Some of the
                      features are implemented as separate elisp files and could maybe be
                      used. Nxhtml mode consists of some changes to basic functions within
                      nxml mode (I found no other way), but it is also a framework for keeping
                      together things that I think are useful when editing XHTML files.

                      What features are you thinking of for use with docbook?



                      aamehl wrote:
                      > Is there a way to back port these features to nxml so they can be used
                      > with docbook?
                      > Thanks
                      > Aaron
                      >
                      > On Fri, 2006-12-29 at 05:04 +0100, Lennart Borgman wrote:
                      >> http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/NxhtmlMode
                    • Steinar Bang
                      ... Does that means that it is incompatible with nxml-mode inside one emacs process?
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 30, 2006
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                        >>>>> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman.073@...>:

                        > I am not sure if any of them would be useful with docbook. Some of
                        > the features are implemented as separate elisp files and could maybe
                        > be used. Nxhtml mode consists of some changes to basic functions
                        > within nxml mode (I found no other way),

                        Does that means that it is incompatible with nxml-mode inside one
                        emacs process?
                      • Lennart Borgman
                        ... Not that I am aware of. Nothing is changed in the nxml code itself. However when nxhtml-mode is loaded nxml-fontify-attribute is redefined. The new
                        Message 11 of 25 , Dec 30, 2006
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                          Steinar Bang wrote:
                          >>>>>> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman.073@...>:
                          >
                          >> I am not sure if any of them would be useful with docbook. Some of
                          >> the features are implemented as separate elisp files and could maybe
                          >> be used. Nxhtml mode consists of some changes to basic functions
                          >> within nxml mode (I found no other way),
                          >
                          > Does that means that it is incompatible with nxml-mode inside one
                          > emacs process?



                          Not that I am aware of. Nothing is changed in the nxml code itself.

                          However when nxhtml-mode is loaded nxml-fontify-attribute is redefined.
                          The new definition should behave in the same way as the original
                          function if not nxhtml-mode is used.

                          There is also a new function nxml-change-mode that is added to
                          change-major-mode-hook, but only in buffers having major-mode
                          nxhtml-mode. This done some cleanup when changing from nxhtml-mode and
                          should really be a part of nxml-mode, but I did not want to change the
                          nxml code itself for now.
                        • Lennart Borgman
                          ... I forgot that I also advice some functions used during completion: (defadvice rng-complete-before-point (around (defadvice rng-complete-attribute-value
                          Message 12 of 25 , Dec 30, 2006
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                            Lennart Borgman wrote:
                            > Steinar Bang wrote:
                            >>>>>>> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman.073@...>:
                            >>> I am not sure if any of them would be useful with docbook. Some of
                            >>> the features are implemented as separate elisp files and could maybe
                            >>> be used. Nxhtml mode consists of some changes to basic functions
                            >>> within nxml mode (I found no other way),
                            >> Does that means that it is incompatible with nxml-mode inside one
                            >> emacs process?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Not that I am aware of. Nothing is changed in the nxml code itself.
                            >
                            > However when nxhtml-mode is loaded nxml-fontify-attribute is redefined.
                            > The new definition should behave in the same way as the original
                            > function if not nxhtml-mode is used.
                            >
                            > There is also a new function nxml-change-mode that is added to
                            > change-major-mode-hook, but only in buffers having major-mode
                            > nxhtml-mode. This done some cleanup when changing from nxhtml-mode and
                            > should really be a part of nxml-mode, but I did not want to change the
                            > nxml code itself for now.



                            I forgot that I also advice some functions used during completion:

                            (defadvice rng-complete-before-point (around
                            (defadvice rng-complete-attribute-value (around
                            (defadvice rng-complete-attribute-value (around

                            These also checks if major -mode is nxhtml-mode and then behave as they
                            do unadviced.

                            I am thinking of rewriting this part and duplicate the completion
                            functions instead of advicing them (since I want them to do a bit more),
                            but I have no good idea what to do with nxml-fontify-attribute. Ideas
                            are welcome.
                          • Steinar Bang
                            ... From past experience, losing defadvice is probably a good idea. Perhaps add some changes to nxml-mode where the advice is needed, that can be posted as a
                            Message 13 of 25 , Dec 30, 2006
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                              >>>>> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman.073@...>:

                              > I am thinking of rewriting this part and duplicate the completion
                              > functions instead of advicing them (since I want them to do a bit more),
                              > but I have no good idea what to do with nxml-fontify-attribute. Ideas
                              > are welcome.

                              From past experience, losing defadvice is probably a good idea.

                              Perhaps add some changes to nxml-mode where the advice is needed, that
                              can be posted as a set of patches? Ie. make nxml-mode use hooks where
                              your defadvice is neccessary. Then your mode can add to the hooks
                              and/or remove from the hooks.

                              Perhaps...?

                              Can hooks be buffer local? If so, a mode building on nxml-mode could
                              rebuild the hooks by its heart's content... perhaps...?

                              I'm not an elisp expert.
                            • Lennart Borgman
                              ... It is good to get rid of defadvice and I will try that. I think it is not very hard and nxml-mode does not need to be changed for this. There is in fact
                              Message 14 of 25 , Dec 30, 2006
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                                Steinar Bang wrote:
                                >>>>>> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman.073@...>:
                                >
                                >> I am thinking of rewriting this part and duplicate the completion
                                >> functions instead of advicing them (since I want them to do a bit more),
                                >> but I have no good idea what to do with nxml-fontify-attribute. Ideas
                                >> are welcome.
                                >
                                > From past experience, losing defadvice is probably a good idea.
                                >
                                > Perhaps add some changes to nxml-mode where the advice is needed, that
                                > can be posted as a set of patches? Ie. make nxml-mode use hooks where
                                > your defadvice is neccessary. Then your mode can add to the hooks
                                > and/or remove from the hooks.


                                It is good to get rid of defadvice and I will try that. I think it is
                                not very hard and nxml-mode does not need to be changed for this. There
                                is in fact nxml-mode uses hooks for completion (see rng-complete), but I
                                did not use them when testing and then I actually forgot to use it.


                                > Can hooks be buffer local? If so, a mode building on nxml-mode could
                                > rebuild the hooks by its heart's content... perhaps...?

                                Yes, see add-hook, the last parameter.
                              • Steinar Bang
                                ... Yes. As far as I can tell, much of the nxml parsing logic seems centered around adding functions to and removing functions from hooks. Is that a correct
                                Message 15 of 25 , Dec 30, 2006
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                                  >>>>> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman.073@...>:

                                  > It is good to get rid of defadvice and I will try that. I think it
                                  > is not very hard and nxml-mode does not need to be changed for
                                  > this. There is in fact nxml-mode uses hooks for completion (see
                                  > rng-complete), but I did not use them when testing and then I
                                  > actually forgot to use it.

                                  Yes. As far as I can tell, much of the nxml parsing logic seems
                                  centered around adding functions to and removing functions from
                                  hooks. Is that a correct assumption?

                                  >> Can hooks be buffer local? If so, a mode building on nxml-mode could
                                  >> rebuild the hooks by its heart's content... perhaps...?

                                  > Yes, see add-hook, the last parameter.

                                  Indeed... `C-h f add-hook RET' and there it was...:-)
                                  If the last parameter is non-nil hook additions will be buffer local.
                                • aamehl
                                  ... first off I wasn t thinking of using the nxhtml mode, rather my idea is that there is no app that is good enough and couldn t use further development.
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Dec 30, 2006
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                                    >
                                    >
                                    > What features are you thinking of for use with docbook?
                                    >
                                    first off I wasn't thinking of using the nxhtml mode, rather my idea is
                                    that there is no app that is "good enough" and couldn't use further
                                    development.
                                    The idea of using features that psgml mode had in nxml-mode got me
                                    thinking, that there are feature I sure wish nxml-mode had. I propose
                                    that since nxml-mode is open source that the community that uses it open
                                    a new project that brings development of nxml-mode to life again. Either
                                    with the same name or a new name.
                                    Things I would like (each person has his own)
                                    1. opening of a tree-view pane for easy nav of large docs
                                    2. the ability to surround text with tags
                                    3. the convience of doing transforms from within emacs
                                    4. A way to see the output while working on the code and have the
                                    ability to work in the wysiwym view with the same shortcuts etc and have
                                    it update the code.
                                    5. right click menus
                                    6. completions that appear as a pop-up menus
                                    7. psgml features etc.

                                    This is just a list off the top of my head.


                                    It could be that there are many more features people want.

                                    Any nibblers?

                                    Aaron
                                    > aamehl wrote:
                                    > > Is there a way to back port these features to nxml so they can be
                                    > used
                                    > > with docbook?
                                    > > Thanks
                                    > > Aaron
                                    > >
                                    > > On Fri, 2006-12-29 at 05:04 +0100, Lennart Borgman wrote:
                                    > >> http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/NxhtmlMode
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Lennart Borgman
                                    ... I am not sure, it is quite complex. Maybe you understand more of it than I do ;-) One of the things I have been thinking of is writing a CSS mode using the
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Dec 30, 2006
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                                      Steinar Bang wrote:

                                      > Yes. As far as I can tell, much of the nxml parsing logic seems
                                      > centered around adding functions to and removing functions from
                                      > hooks. Is that a correct assumption?


                                      I am not sure, it is quite complex. Maybe you understand more of it than
                                      I do ;-)

                                      One of the things I have been thinking of is writing a CSS mode using
                                      the rng framework, but I have never had the time to dig deep enough in
                                      the code to understand what is needed to do that. Any ideas?
                                    • Steinar Bang
                                      ... That I doubt. :-) I ve been trying to figure out the logic by looking at the code. But I guess I have to debug to get a real feel for the logic. ... About
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Dec 30, 2006
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                                        >>>>> Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman.073@...>:

                                        > I am not sure, it is quite complex. Maybe you understand more of it
                                        > than I do ;-)

                                        That I doubt. :-)

                                        I've been trying to figure out the logic by looking at the code. But
                                        I guess I have to debug to get a real feel for the logic.

                                        > One of the things I have been thinking of is writing a CSS mode using
                                        > the rng framework, but I have never had the time to dig deep enough in
                                        > the code to understand what is needed to do that. Any ideas?

                                        About nxml mode, no. However CSS is more like rnc, than XML. Have you
                                        looked at rnc-mode?
                                        http://www.pantor.com/download.html

                                        BTW, what can be improved over the current CSS modes with something
                                        like this? (all I've figued out making css-mode do, is indent and
                                        highlight, and btw that's all rnc-mode does for me)
                                      • Lennart Borgman
                                        ... No, thanks, I will have a look. ... Completion.
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Dec 30, 2006
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                                          Steinar Bang wrote:

                                          >> One of the things I have been thinking of is writing a CSS mode using
                                          >> the rng framework, but I have never had the time to dig deep enough in
                                          >> the code to understand what is needed to do that. Any ideas?
                                          >
                                          > About nxml mode, no. However CSS is more like rnc, than XML. Have you
                                          > looked at rnc-mode?
                                          > http://www.pantor.com/download.html

                                          No, thanks, I will have a look.

                                          > BTW, what can be improved over the current CSS modes with something
                                          > like this? (all I've figued out making css-mode do, is indent and
                                          > highlight, and btw that's all rnc-mode does for me)


                                          Completion.
                                        • Tony Graham
                                          On Sat, Dec 30 2006 15:50:13 +0000, aamehl wrote: ... IMO, that would best be done by making nxml-mode work with Speedbar [1] and ECB [2] rather than inventing
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Dec 30, 2006
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                                            On Sat, Dec 30 2006 15:50:13 +0000, aamehl wrote:
                                            ...
                                            > Things I would like (each person has his own)
                                            > 1. opening of a tree-view pane for easy nav of large docs

                                            IMO, that would best be done by making nxml-mode work with Speedbar
                                            [1] and ECB [2] rather than inventing a tree-view mechanism that is
                                            specific to nxml-mode.

                                            > 2. the ability to surround text with tags
                                            > 3. the convience of doing transforms from within emacs

                                            The xslide XSL mode [3] is able to do transforms, as is another XSL
                                            minor mode whose name escapes me now.

                                            Regards,


                                            Tony Graham.
                                            ======================================================================
                                            Tony Graham mailto:Tony.Graham@...
                                            Menteith Consulting Ltd http://www.menteithconsulting.com
                                            13 Kelly's Bay Beach
                                            Skerries, Co. Dublin, Ireland
                                            ======================================================================

                                            [1] http://cedet.sourceforge.net/speedbar.shtml
                                            [2] http://ecb.sourceforge.net/
                                            [3] http://www.menteith.com/xslide/
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