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RE: BANTER Re: [Elm City Cycling] ATVs in East Rock

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  • Ronald Ferrucci
    Yes, but one of the important things in tree-spiking as a tactic is that people are notified that trees have been spiked (particularly the media since the
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 4, 2006
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      Yes, but one of the important things in tree-spiking as a tactic is that
      people are notified that trees have been spiked (particularly the media
      since the lumbar companies cannot be depended upon to do the right thing
      when money is on the line). Tree-spiking as a tactic is not intended to be
      used to get someone hurt but to stop, or slow down, a timber sale. before
      the land can be sold of the trees harvested, they have to go through the
      long process of checking the trees. Plus, I do not necessarily think he
      advocates tree-spiking as much as presents it as a tactic. I am just not
      sure of his stance. I think he may have advocated it, but then someone got
      hurt from a spiked tree and many people who once advocated it now caution
      against it. the incident where someone got hurt was as a result of someone
      (a right-winger I believe) spiking trees on his land that kept getting
      flagged to be cut down. Do not remember the details, but I believe his land
      was adjacent to a timber sale or something like that. The guy in question
      did not notify anyone that trees were spiked.


      From: "Bruce Crowder" <brucecrowder@...>
      To: Elmcitycycling <elmcitycycling@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: BANTER Re: [Elm City Cycling] ATVs in East Rock
      Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 10:34:22 -0400

      That sick bastard should be in jail. Doesn't he advocate "tree spiking" in
      that book?



      On 4/4/06, Ronald Ferrucci <r_ferrucci@...> wrote:
      >
      > David Foreman's "ecodefense" has some good tips.
      >
      >
      > From: SARAH COE <scoe@...>
      > To: Lisa Fernandez <loyanar@...>, elmcitycycling@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [Elm City Cycling] ATVs in East Rock
      > Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 09:37:03 -0700 (PDT)
      >
      >
      > But how? If Parks aren't able to enforce rules, and kids usually use
      those
      >
      > at night, who's going to be able to stop them? I know where one is
      > occasionally parked in a front yard, but I doubt they'd be very receptive
      > if
      > you rang the doorbell. Sugar in the gas tank is a temptation...
      >
      >
    • Bruce Crowder
      Putting a spike in a tree is exactly like creating a mine field. The only people who are ever in any danger are the lumberjacks out there working their asses
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 4, 2006
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        Putting a spike in a tree is exactly like creating a mine field. The
        only people who are ever in any danger are the lumberjacks out there
        working their asses off to feed their families.

        The reason I am responding to this in the first place is to point out
        that these sort of tactics do nothing but strip credibility away from
        a group. It's one thing for a "bandit" to paint a bicycle in the
        street. It's another alltogether to ruin some poor kid's
        thousand-dollar recreation vehicle by putting sugar in the gas tank
        because you don't like where he's using it. There are more effective
        ways of dealing with these problems that don't hurt people or turn the
        police against our cause.



        On 4/4/06, Ronald Ferrucci <r_ferrucci@...> wrote:
        > Yes, but one of the important things in tree-spiking as a tactic is that
        > people are notified that trees have been spiked (particularly the media
        > since the lumbar companies cannot be depended upon to do the right thing
        > when money is on the line). Tree-spiking as a tactic is not intended to be
        > used to get someone hurt but to stop, or slow down, a timber sale. before
        > the land can be sold of the trees harvested, they have to go through the
        > long process of checking the trees. Plus, I do not necessarily think he
        > advocates tree-spiking as much as presents it as a tactic. I am just not
        > sure of his stance. I think he may have advocated it, but then someone got
        > hurt from a spiked tree and many people who once advocated it now caution
        > against it. the incident where someone got hurt was as a result of someone
        > (a right-winger I believe) spiking trees on his land that kept getting
        > flagged to be cut down. Do not remember the details, but I believe his
        > land
        > was adjacent to a timber sale or something like that. The guy in question
        > did not notify anyone that trees were spiked.
        >
        >
        > From: "Bruce Crowder" <brucecrowder@...>
        > To: Elmcitycycling <elmcitycycling@yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: BANTER Re: [Elm City Cycling] ATVs in East Rock
        > Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 10:34:22 -0400
        >
        >
        > That sick bastard should be in jail. Doesn't he advocate "tree spiking" in
        > that book?
        >
        >
        >
        > On 4/4/06, Ronald Ferrucci <r_ferrucci@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > David Foreman's "ecodefense" has some good tips.
        > >
        > >
        > > From: SARAH COE <scoe@...>
        > > To: Lisa Fernandez <loyanar@...>, elmcitycycling@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: Re: [Elm City Cycling] ATVs in East Rock
        > > Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 09:37:03 -0700 (PDT)
        > >
        > >
        > > But how? If Parks aren't able to enforce rules, and kids usually use
        > those
        > >
        > > at night, who's going to be able to stop them? I know where one is
        > > occasionally parked in a front yard, but I doubt they'd be very receptive
        > > if
        > > you rang the doorbell. Sugar in the gas tank is a temptation...
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >
        >
        > Visit your group "elmcitycycling" on the web.
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        >
        > ________________________________
        >


        --
        Bruce Crowder
        314 Humphrey St.
        New Haven, CT 06511
        (203) 787-3494
      • Ronald Ferrucci
        But the lumberjacks are not in danger if people are aware that trees are spiked. However, when someone spikes a tree out of revenge and does not notify anyone
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 4, 2006
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          But the lumberjacks are not in danger if people are aware that trees are
          spiked. However, when someone spikes a tree out of revenge and does not
          notify anyone then there is the possibility. Anyway, as I said most pepole
          that used to advocate it started preaching out against it because somone got
          hurt. Even though the person that got hurt was hurt because of someone not
          associated with the movement spiking a tree, and due to the lumber companies
          negligence because the mill did not have adequate safety precautions.

          And I did not recommend pouring sugar down the gas tank of some kids toy,
          but if they are not going to obey the law and if the law cannot do anything
          about it I say right on. They know the're not supposed to be on the trails,
          but they do it anyway. Plus, I posted the reference to "ecodefense" as a
          joke. I doubt anyone on this list has a copy, nor do I think anyone has the
          cojones to use it. Hey, if you could convince someone not to do something
          that they know full well they are not supposed to do anyway, power to you.
          Maybe the mayor could help out.


          From: "Bruce Crowder" <brucecrowder@...>
          To: elmcitycycling@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: BANTER Re: [Elm City Cycling] ATVs in East Rock
          Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 16:26:42 -0400

          Putting a spike in a tree is exactly like creating a mine field. The
          only people who are ever in any danger are the lumberjacks out there
          working their asses off to feed their families.

          The reason I am responding to this in the first place is to point out
          that these sort of tactics do nothing but strip credibility away from
          a group. It's one thing for a "bandit" to paint a bicycle in the
          street. It's another alltogether to ruin some poor kid's
          thousand-dollar recreation vehicle by putting sugar in the gas tank
          because you don't like where he's using it. There are more effective
          ways of dealing with these problems that don't hurt people or turn the
          police against our cause.
        • Ronald Ferrucci
          Anyway, I doubt anyone would use anything in ecodefense in this case. Sugar in gas tank? Are you going to put sugar in the gas tank of every atv you come
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 4, 2006
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            Anyway, I doubt anyone would use anything in ecodefense in this case. Sugar
            in gas tank? Are you going to put sugar in the gas tank of every atv you
            come accross? Even though they are a menace, I doubt this would be
            feasable. However, you would be doing these kids a favor because those
            machines are dangerous. Boobytrapping trails would also create a hazard to
            hikers and mountain bikers. So I guess you guys are going to have to live
            with ATVs on the trails. As I said, education is not going to work, they
            really do not care that they are supposed to be out there. I am sure the
            person who mentioned sugar in the gas tank meant it as a joke, and I posted
            the reference to ecodefense lighheartedly sinceI do not think any
            suggestions from the book would be practical, though I can look through my
            copy and see.
          • Bruce Crowder
            I agree that these are bad strategies and I m sure the sugar comment was a joke. There are a lot of people on this list with a lot of different opinions. How
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 4, 2006
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              I agree that these are bad strategies and I'm sure the sugar comment
              was a joke. There are a lot of people on this list with a lot of
              different opinions. How should I know if there aren't people who
              enjoy this form of dissent?

              For the record, my image of you is the guy who gives free food to
              homeless people -- not some mad tree-spiking villain.


              On Apr 4, 2006, at 6:39 PM, Ronald Ferrucci wrote:

              Anyway, I doubt anyone would use anything in ecodefense in this
              case. Sugar
              in gas tank? Are you going to put sugar in the gas tank of every atv
              you
              come accross? Even though they are a menace, I doubt this would be
              feasable. However, you would be doing these kids a favor because those
              machines are dangerous. Boobytrapping trails would also create a
              hazard to
              hikers and mountain bikers. So I guess you guys are going to have to
              live
              with ATVs on the trails. As I said, education is not going to work,
              they
              really do not care that they are supposed to be out there. I am sure
              the
              person who mentioned sugar in the gas tank meant it as a joke, and I
              posted
              the reference to ecodefense lighheartedly sinceI do not think any
              suggestions from the book would be practical, though I can look
              through my
              copy and see.
            • ralph ferrucci
              Can I be the bad tree spiking villiain? Ralph
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 4, 2006
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                Can I be the bad tree spiking villiain?
                Ralph
              • Ronald Ferrucci
                Only if I could be known as the guy you rides drunk through the streets of salt lake city (formally known as the guy who rides drunk through the streets of
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 4, 2006
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                  Only if I could be known as "the guy you rides drunk through the streets of
                  salt lake city" (formally known as "the guy who rides drunk through the
                  streets of new haven," not to be confused as "the guy who rides a motrcycle
                  drunk through the streets of new haven, crashing into cars and leading new
                  haven's finest on a high-speed chase," also known as "chuckie"), though I
                  think I have competition (from my friends, of course).

                  From: ralph ferrucci <ralphferrucci@...>
                  To: elmcitycycling@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Elm City Cycling] BANTER
                  Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 21:01:00 -0400

                  Can I be the bad tree spiking villiain?
                  Ralph




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                • Rob Rocke
                  wait, i thought bill kurtz already has the title of dude who rides a bicycle drunk through new haven ? oh wait...my bad...that s dude who rides a bicycle
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 4, 2006
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                    wait, i thought bill kurtz already has the title of "dude who rides a
                    bicycle drunk through new haven"?

                    oh wait...my bad...that's "dude who rides a bicycle drunk through WEST
                    haven!!!"


                    ;-)
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