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Re: [ellwood] Re: Peter Ellwood's chart

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  • Steve Hayes
    ... Ah, I see him there -- Peter David Roger, I presume? ... We haven t got as far as that on his sheets, though we have looked at some of the descendants for
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 13, 2012
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      On 13 Jan 2012 at 9:17, G ROBERTS wrote:

      > Peter Ellwood used to work for the British Council in Sweden/Norway. I believe
      > he has since retired and is back in the UK. He appears on his chart on page 5
      > as a descendant of John Hassall Ellwood. I think he has a presence on Genes
      > Reunited.

      Ah, I see him there -- Peter David Roger, I presume?

      >   I have only checked his work as far back as the marriage of
      > Daniel Ellwood and Hannah Crewdson on page 4, and I agree with what Peter
      > says as far as their descendants are concerned.

      We haven't got as far as that on his sheets, though we have looked at some of
      the descendants for Daniel and Hannah (and some of the information we have
      came from you, so hope you can check the descendant sheets to see if we have
      got it right).

      There were some problems with some of the descendants of Daniel's older
      brother Samuel, but there were quite a lot of them !

      > There is a question about why
      > Daniel seems to suddenly appear in the Kendal area.   There are several
      > documents available in the Cumbrian archives (which are catalogued through
      > Access to Archives on the National Archives website) concerning an
      > economically troubled Ellwood family in the Dufton area, who have a son Daniel
      > (among other children). The father and mother are named as Edmund and
      > Elizabeth Ellwood. It seems likely that the family moved away from Dufton
      > because their stock was so low in the area (...the records include details of
      > Edmund being whipped  for the theft of a prayer book).   I cannot speak for
      > the accuracy of Peter's work in other areas, except to say that his work on
      > the descendants of Daniel Ellwood and Hannah Crewdson has given me no reason
      > for doubt.   Regards Guy

      I think we have found Elizabeth's death in Bolton. Haven't found Edmund's
      death, though.




      > --- On Fri, 13/1/12, Steve Hayes <hayesstw@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: Steve Hayes <hayesstw@...>
      > Subject: [ellwood] Edmund Ellwood b. 1700 and Elizabeth
      > To: ellwood@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Friday, 13 January, 2012, 6:09
      >
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      > On 12 Jan 2012 at 2:31, grahamo_ell wrote:
      >
      > > Have noticed that the Bruce Morrison tree has a small error.
      > > Edmund Ellwood married Anne Rudd 1696.
      > > It then states that they had six children but only lists five children.
      > > Thomas b 1697 Christopher 1699 Edmund 1700 William 1702 and Dorathy 1706.
      > > Does anyone know if this is an error or if there was a sixth child not
      > > mentioned?
      >
      > In August last year Guy Roberts sent us a list of descendants of Edmund
      > Ellwood and Elizabeth Howe, which he said had come from a Peter Ellwood some
      > years ago.
      >
      > Most of the people on it, however, are descendants of Edmund Ellwood and Anna
      > Rudd, and in particular of their son Edmund, born 1700, who married Elizabeth.
      >
      >
      > Val has been going through it, generation by generation, person by person,
      > trying to get more information and to confirm the information (rather sketchy)
      > that is already there, and to add new information.
      >
      > Some of the information in it seems to be completely wrong.-- for example it
      > shows a Mary Preston marrying a John Teasdale, but the children attributed to
      > them belonged to a different couple altogether.
      >
      > I will upload a revised descendant report, but starting further down, with
      > Edmund and Elizabeth, showing what we have found so far, for others who are
      > working on this branch of the family.
      >
      > Bear in mind that it is a work in progress, and there are some parts of it we
      > haven't touched at all.
      >
      > We've tried, without success so far, to make contact with the Peter Ellwood
      > who drew up the original descendant chart, so we are not sure how he is
      > related.
      >
      > --
      > Keep well,
      > Steve Hayes
      > Web: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com
      > http://hayesfam.posterous.com/
      > E-mail: shayes@...
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      --
      Steve Hayes
      E-mail: shayes@...
      Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr)
      Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
      Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
      Fax: 086-548-2525
    • Gillian Mc Kenna
      Hi, I have found written in my notes that Elizabeth died shortly after their removal from Dufton aged 43. Don t have a burial record though. Gillian
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 13, 2012
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        Hi,

        I have found written in my notes that Elizabeth died shortly after their removal from Dufton aged 43. Don't have a burial record though.

        Gillian

        --- In ellwood@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hayes" <hayesstw@...> wrote:
        >
        > On 13 Jan 2012 at 9:17, G ROBERTS wrote:
        >
        > > Peter Ellwood used to work for the British Council in Sweden/Norway. I believe
        > > he has since retired and is back in the UK. He appears on his chart on page 5
        > > as a descendant of John Hassall Ellwood. I think he has a presence on Genes
        > > Reunited.
        >
        > Ah, I see him there -- Peter David Roger, I presume?
        >
        > >   I have only checked his work as far back as the marriage of
        > > Daniel Ellwood and Hannah Crewdson on page 4, and I agree with what Peter
        > > says as far as their descendants are concerned.
        >
        > We haven't got as far as that on his sheets, though we have looked at some of
        > the descendants for Daniel and Hannah (and some of the information we have
        > came from you, so hope you can check the descendant sheets to see if we have
        > got it right).
        >
        > There were some problems with some of the descendants of Daniel's older
        > brother Samuel, but there were quite a lot of them !
        >
        > > There is a question about why
        > > Daniel seems to suddenly appear in the Kendal area.   There are several
        > > documents available in the Cumbrian archives (which are catalogued through
        > > Access to Archives on the National Archives website) concerning an
        > > economically troubled Ellwood family in the Dufton area, who have a son Daniel
        > > (among other children). The father and mother are named as Edmund and
        > > Elizabeth Ellwood. It seems likely that the family moved away from Dufton
        > > because their stock was so low in the area (...the records include details of
        > > Edmund being whipped  for the theft of a prayer book).   I cannot speak for
        > > the accuracy of Peter's work in other areas, except to say that his work on
        > > the descendants of Daniel Ellwood and Hannah Crewdson has given me no reason
        > > for doubt.   Regards Guy
        >
        > I think we have found Elizabeth's death in Bolton. Haven't found Edmund's
        > death, though.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > > --- On Fri, 13/1/12, Steve Hayes <hayesstw@...> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > From: Steve Hayes <hayesstw@...>
        > > Subject: [ellwood] Edmund Ellwood b. 1700 and Elizabeth
        > > To: ellwood@yahoogroups.com
        > > Date: Friday, 13 January, 2012, 6:09
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >  
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > On 12 Jan 2012 at 2:31, grahamo_ell wrote:
        > >
        > > > Have noticed that the Bruce Morrison tree has a small error.
        > > > Edmund Ellwood married Anne Rudd 1696.
        > > > It then states that they had six children but only lists five children.
        > > > Thomas b 1697 Christopher 1699 Edmund 1700 William 1702 and Dorathy 1706.
        > > > Does anyone know if this is an error or if there was a sixth child not
        > > > mentioned?
        > >
        > > In August last year Guy Roberts sent us a list of descendants of Edmund
        > > Ellwood and Elizabeth Howe, which he said had come from a Peter Ellwood some
        > > years ago.
        > >
        > > Most of the people on it, however, are descendants of Edmund Ellwood and Anna
        > > Rudd, and in particular of their son Edmund, born 1700, who married Elizabeth.
        > >
        > >
        > > Val has been going through it, generation by generation, person by person,
        > > trying to get more information and to confirm the information (rather sketchy)
        > > that is already there, and to add new information.
        > >
        > > Some of the information in it seems to be completely wrong.-- for example it
        > > shows a Mary Preston marrying a John Teasdale, but the children attributed to
        > > them belonged to a different couple altogether.
        > >
        > > I will upload a revised descendant report, but starting further down, with
        > > Edmund and Elizabeth, showing what we have found so far, for others who are
        > > working on this branch of the family.
        > >
        > > Bear in mind that it is a work in progress, and there are some parts of it we
        > > haven't touched at all.
        > >
        > > We've tried, without success so far, to make contact with the Peter Ellwood
        > > who drew up the original descendant chart, so we are not sure how he is
        > > related.
        > >
        > > --
        > > Keep well,
        > > Steve Hayes
        > > Web: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com
        > > http://hayesfam.posterous.com/
        > > E-mail: shayes@...
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > --
        > Steve Hayes
        > E-mail: shayes@...
        > Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr)
        > Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
        > Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
        > Fax: 086-548-2525
        >
      • Gillian Mc Kenna
        Hi According to the National Archives, Edmund & family were in Bolton in 1742: [no title or date] WQ/SR/154/1 These documents are held at Cumbria Record
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 13, 2012
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          Hi

          According to the National Archives, Edmund & family were in Bolton in 1742:

          [no title or date] WQ/SR/154/1


          These documents are held at Cumbria Record Office, Kendal

          Contents:
          Petition of Edmund Ellwood of Bolton: has wife and 2 small children in extreme poverty, was blacksmith but because of misfortune had to sell tools, would willingly work if possible, desires overseers to find tools or allow him allowance.
          Date: 1742

          Gillian

          --- In ellwood@yahoogroups.com, "Gillian Mc Kenna" <gillianmckenna@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > I have found written in my notes that Elizabeth died shortly after their removal from Dufton aged 43. Don't have a burial record though.
          >
          > Gillian
          >
          > --- In ellwood@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hayes" <hayesstw@> wrote:
          > >
          > > On 13 Jan 2012 at 9:17, G ROBERTS wrote:
          > >
          > > > Peter Ellwood used to work for the British Council in Sweden/Norway. I believe
          > > > he has since retired and is back in the UK. He appears on his chart on page 5
          > > > as a descendant of John Hassall Ellwood. I think he has a presence on Genes
          > > > Reunited.
          > >
          > > Ah, I see him there -- Peter David Roger, I presume?
          > >
          > > >   I have only checked his work as far back as the marriage of
          > > > Daniel Ellwood and Hannah Crewdson on page 4, and I agree with what Peter
          > > > says as far as their descendants are concerned.
          > >
          > > We haven't got as far as that on his sheets, though we have looked at some of
          > > the descendants for Daniel and Hannah (and some of the information we have
          > > came from you, so hope you can check the descendant sheets to see if we have
          > > got it right).
          > >
          > > There were some problems with some of the descendants of Daniel's older
          > > brother Samuel, but there were quite a lot of them !
          > >
          > > > There is a question about why
          > > > Daniel seems to suddenly appear in the Kendal area.   There are several
          > > > documents available in the Cumbrian archives (which are catalogued through
          > > > Access to Archives on the National Archives website) concerning an
          > > > economically troubled Ellwood family in the Dufton area, who have a son Daniel
          > > > (among other children). The father and mother are named as Edmund and
          > > > Elizabeth Ellwood. It seems likely that the family moved away from Dufton
          > > > because their stock was so low in the area (...the records include details of
          > > > Edmund being whipped  for the theft of a prayer book).   I cannot speak for
          > > > the accuracy of Peter's work in other areas, except to say that his work on
          > > > the descendants of Daniel Ellwood and Hannah Crewdson has given me no reason
          > > > for doubt.   Regards Guy
          > >
          > > I think we have found Elizabeth's death in Bolton. Haven't found Edmund's
          > > death, though.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > > --- On Fri, 13/1/12, Steve Hayes <hayesstw@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > From: Steve Hayes <hayesstw@>
          > > > Subject: [ellwood] Edmund Ellwood b. 1700 and Elizabeth
          > > > To: ellwood@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Date: Friday, 13 January, 2012, 6:09
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >  
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > On 12 Jan 2012 at 2:31, grahamo_ell wrote:
          > > >
          > > > > Have noticed that the Bruce Morrison tree has a small error.
          > > > > Edmund Ellwood married Anne Rudd 1696.
          > > > > It then states that they had six children but only lists five children.
          > > > > Thomas b 1697 Christopher 1699 Edmund 1700 William 1702 and Dorathy 1706.
          > > > > Does anyone know if this is an error or if there was a sixth child not
          > > > > mentioned?
          > > >
          > > > In August last year Guy Roberts sent us a list of descendants of Edmund
          > > > Ellwood and Elizabeth Howe, which he said had come from a Peter Ellwood some
          > > > years ago.
          > > >
          > > > Most of the people on it, however, are descendants of Edmund Ellwood and Anna
          > > > Rudd, and in particular of their son Edmund, born 1700, who married Elizabeth.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Val has been going through it, generation by generation, person by person,
          > > > trying to get more information and to confirm the information (rather sketchy)
          > > > that is already there, and to add new information.
          > > >
          > > > Some of the information in it seems to be completely wrong.-- for example it
          > > > shows a Mary Preston marrying a John Teasdale, but the children attributed to
          > > > them belonged to a different couple altogether.
          > > >
          > > > I will upload a revised descendant report, but starting further down, with
          > > > Edmund and Elizabeth, showing what we have found so far, for others who are
          > > > working on this branch of the family.
          > > >
          > > > Bear in mind that it is a work in progress, and there are some parts of it we
          > > > haven't touched at all.
          > > >
          > > > We've tried, without success so far, to make contact with the Peter Ellwood
          > > > who drew up the original descendant chart, so we are not sure how he is
          > > > related.
          > > >
          > > > --
          > > > Keep well,
          > > > Steve Hayes
          > > > Web: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com
          > > > http://hayesfam.posterous.com/
          > > > E-mail: shayes@
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --
          > > Steve Hayes
          > > E-mail: shayes@
          > > Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr)
          > > Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
          > > Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
          > > Fax: 086-548-2525
          > >
          >
        • Steve Hayes
          ... 6 June 1770 in Bolton. -- Steve Hayes E-mail: shayes@dunelm.org.uk Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr) Blog:
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 13, 2012
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            On 13 Jan 2012 at 15:37, Gillian Mc Kenna wrote:

            > Hi,
            >
            > I have found written in my notes that Elizabeth died shortly after their
            > removal from Dufton aged 43. Don't have a burial record though.

            6 June 1770 in Bolton.


            --
            Steve Hayes
            E-mail: shayes@...
            Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr)
            Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
            Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
            Fax: 086-548-2525
          • O'Brien Family
            Many thanks for the Dufton photos. Have two photos of the Baptismal Font from St Cuthberts Church from our trip that were not corrupted on our camera SD card.
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 16, 2012
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              Many thanks for the Dufton photos. 
              Have two photos of the Baptismal Font from St Cuthberts Church from our trip that were not corrupted on our camera SD card.
              If anyone wants a copy please let me know.
              Graham
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 3:37 AM
              Subject: [ellwood] Re: Peter Ellwood's chart

               

              Hi

              According to the National Archives, Edmund & family were in Bolton in 1742:

              [no title or date] WQ/SR/154/1

              These documents are held at Cumbria Record Office, Kendal

              Contents:
              Petition of Edmund Ellwood of Bolton: has wife and 2 small children in extreme poverty, was blacksmith but because of misfortune had to sell tools, would willingly work if possible, desires overseers to find tools or allow him allowance.
              Date: 1742

              Gillian

              --- In ellwood@yahoogroups.com, "Gillian Mc Kenna" <gillianmckenna@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi,
              >
              > I have found written in my notes that Elizabeth died shortly after their removal from Dufton aged 43. Don't have a burial record though.
              >
              > Gillian
              >
              > --- In ellwood@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hayes" <hayesstw@> wrote:
              > >
              > > On 13 Jan 2012 at 9:17, G ROBERTS wrote:
              > >
              > > > Peter Ellwood used to work for the British Council in Sweden/Norway. I believe
              > > > he has since retired and is back in the UK. He appears on his chart on page 5
              > > > as a descendant of John Hassall Ellwood. I think he has a presence on Genes
              > > > Reunited.
              > >
              > > Ah, I see him there -- Peter David Roger, I presume?
              > >
              > > >   I have only checked his work as far back as the marriage of
              > > > Daniel Ellwood and Hannah Crewdson on page 4, and I agree with what Peter
              > > > says as far as their descendants are concerned.
              > >
              > > We haven't got as far as that on his sheets, though we have looked at some of
              > > the descendants for Daniel and Hannah (and some of the information we have
              > > came from you, so hope you can check the descendant sheets to see if we have
              > > got it right).
              > >
              > > There were some problems with some of the descendants of Daniel's older
              > > brother Samuel, but there were quite a lot of them !
              > >
              > > > There is a question about why
              > > > Daniel seems to suddenly appear in the Kendal area.   There are several
              > > > documents available in the Cumbrian archives (which are catalogued through
              > > > Access to Archives on the National Archives website) concerning an
              > > > economically troubled Ellwood family in the Dufton area, who have a son Daniel
              > > > (among other children). The father and mother are named as Edmund and
              > > > Elizabeth Ellwood. It seems likely that the family moved away from Dufton
              > > > because their stock was so low in the area (...the records include details of
              > > > Edmund being whipped  for the theft of a prayer book).   I cannot speak for
              > > > the accuracy of Peter's work in other areas, except to say that his work on
              > > > the descendants of Daniel Ellwood and Hannah Crewdson has given me no reason
              > > > for doubt.   Regards Guy
              > >
              > > I think we have found Elizabeth's death in Bolton. Haven't found Edmund's
              > > death, though.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > > --- On Fri, 13/1/12, Steve Hayes <hayesstw@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > From: Steve Hayes <hayesstw@>
              > > > Subject: [ellwood] Edmund Ellwood b. 1700 and Elizabeth
              > > > To: ellwood@yahoogroups.com
              > > > Date: Friday, 13 January, 2012, 6:09
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >  
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > On 12 Jan 2012 at 2:31, grahamo_ell wrote:
              > > >
              > > > > Have noticed that the Bruce Morrison tree has a small error.
              > > > > Edmund Ellwood married Anne Rudd 1696.
              > > > > It then states that they had six children but only lists five children.
              > > > > Thomas b 1697 Christopher 1699 Edmund 1700 William 1702 and Dorathy 1706.
              > > > > Does anyone know if this is an error or if there was a sixth child not
              > > > > mentioned?
              > > >
              > > > In August last year Guy Roberts sent us a list of descendants of Edmund
              > > > Ellwood and Elizabeth Howe, which he said had come from a Peter Ellwood some
              > > > years ago.
              > > >
              > > > Most of the people on it, however, are descendants of Edmund Ellwood and Anna
              > > > Rudd, and in particular of their son Edmund, born 1700, who married Elizabeth.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Val has been going through it, generation by generation, person by person,
              > > > trying to get more information and to confirm the information (rather sketchy)
              > > > that is already there, and to add new information.
              > > >
              > > > Some of the information in it seems to be completely wrong.-- for example it
              > > > shows a Mary Preston marrying a John Teasdale, but the children attributed to
              > > > them belonged to a different couple altogether.
              > > >
              > > > I will upload a revised descendant report, but starting further down, with
              > > > Edmund and Elizabeth, showing what we have found so far, for others who are
              > > > working on this branch of the family.
              > > >
              > > > Bear in mind that it is a work in progress, and there are some parts of it we
              > > > haven't touched at all.
              > > >
              > > > We've tried, without success so far, to make contact with the Peter Ellwood
              > > > who drew up the original descendant chart, so we are not sure how he is
              > > > related.
              > > >
              > > > --
              > > > Keep well,
              > > > Steve Hayes
              > > > Web: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com
              > > > http://hayesfam.posterous.com/
              > > > E-mail: shayes@
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > Steve Hayes
              > > E-mail: shayes@
              > > Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr)
              > > Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
              > > Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
              > > Fax: 086-548-2525
              > >
              >

            • Gillian Mc Kenna
              Hi Steve, Oh well, so much for dying just after the move from Dufton to Bolton!! There is an Edmund Ellwood who paid window tax in Dufton in 1777 but this is
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 17, 2012
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                Hi Steve,

                Oh well, so much for dying just after the move from Dufton to Bolton!!

                There is an Edmund Ellwood who paid window tax in Dufton in 1777 but this is probably our other Edmund who died 1803 who left the will.

                Regards,

                Gillian

                --- In ellwood@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hayes" <hayesstw@...> wrote:
                >
                > On 13 Jan 2012 at 15:37, Gillian Mc Kenna wrote:
                >
                > > Hi,
                > >
                > > I have found written in my notes that Elizabeth died shortly after their
                > > removal from Dufton aged 43. Don't have a burial record though.
                >
                > 6 June 1770 in Bolton.
                >
                >
                > --
                > Steve Hayes
                > E-mail: shayes@...
                > Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr)
                > Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
                > Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
                > Fax: 086-548-2525
                >
              • Genie Zappanti
                I would be interested in looking at the group sheets. Edmund Ellwood and Anne Rudd are my 8th Great Grandparents ... From: Steve Hayes Date: 01/17/12 20:54:53
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 17, 2012
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                  I would be interested in looking at the group sheets. Edmund Ellwood and Anne Rudd are my 8th Great Grandparents 
                   
                   
                   
                   
                  -------Original Message-------
                   
                  Date: 01/17/12 20:54:53
                  Subject: Re: [ellwood] Re: Peter Ellwood's chart
                   
                   

                  On 17 Jan 2012 at 18:47, Gillian Mc Kenna wrote:

                  > Oh well, so much for dying just after the move from Dufton to Bolton!!
                  >
                  > There is an Edmund Ellwood who paid window tax in Dufton in 1777 but this is
                  > probably our other Edmund who died 1803 who left the will.

                  Ive been looking quite a lot at this Edmund (born c 1770, son of Edmund
                  Ellwood and Anne Rudd) recently -- will send family group sheets to anyone
                  who is interested for comment/correction.

                  He's not our direct ancestor, but several people on the list seem to be
                  descended from him.

                  The only record of a marriage of an Edward to an Elizabeth we have been able
                  to find is to an Elizabeth Robinson in Carlisle on 14 Oct 1725. But the only
                  chidren of Edmund and Elizabeth born soon after were all born in Dufton:

                  Samuel (1726) m. Hannah Barrow ???
                  Daniel (1728) m. Hannah Crewdson
                  Lydia (1730) m. William Robinson
                  Elizabeth (1732) died in infancy
                  Ann (1734) m. William Morris
                  John (1738) died in infancy

                  And, as you have shown, around 1740 they moved to Bolton, and were in
                  financial difficulties there in 1742. Samuel does not appear to have been
                  with them then. He would have been about 14-16 then. Was he apprenticed
                  somewhere?

                  Samuel seems to be the most problematic, at least for us. Other people's
                  trees show descendants, but they aren't always consistent with each other,
                  and we haven't been able to find any confirmatory records on line. Of course
                  not everything is available on line for checking, and they may have seen
                  records that have not been transcribed or filmed yet.

                  Do you have anything on him and his descendants?

                  --
                  Keep well,
                  Steve Hayes
                  Web: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com
                  http://hayesfam.posterous.com/
                  E-mail: shayes@...

                   
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                • Steve Hayes
                  ... Ive been looking quite a lot at this Edmund (born c 1770, son of Edmund Ellwood and Anne Rudd) recently -- will send family group sheets to anyone who is
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 17, 2012
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                    On 17 Jan 2012 at 18:47, Gillian Mc Kenna wrote:

                    > Oh well, so much for dying just after the move from Dufton to Bolton!!
                    >
                    > There is an Edmund Ellwood who paid window tax in Dufton in 1777 but this is
                    > probably our other Edmund who died 1803 who left the will.

                    Ive been looking quite a lot at this Edmund (born c 1770, son of Edmund
                    Ellwood and Anne Rudd) recently -- will send family group sheets to anyone
                    who is interested for comment/correction.

                    He's not our direct ancestor, but several people on the list seem to be
                    descended from him.

                    The only record of a marriage of an Edward to an Elizabeth we have been able
                    to find is to an Elizabeth Robinson in Carlisle on 14 Oct 1725. But the only
                    chidren of Edmund and Elizabeth born soon after were all born in Dufton:

                    Samuel (1726) m. Hannah Barrow ???
                    Daniel (1728) m. Hannah Crewdson
                    Lydia (1730) m. William Robinson
                    Elizabeth (1732) died in infancy
                    Ann (1734) m. William Morris
                    John (1738) died in infancy

                    And, as you have shown, around 1740 they moved to Bolton, and were in
                    financial difficulties there in 1742. Samuel does not appear to have been
                    with them then. He would have been about 14-16 then. Was he apprenticed
                    somewhere?

                    Samuel seems to be the most problematic, at least for us. Other people's
                    trees show descendants, but they aren't always consistent with each other,
                    and we haven't been able to find any confirmatory records on line. Of course
                    not everything is available on line for checking, and they may have seen
                    records that have not been transcribed or filmed yet.

                    Do you have anything on him and his descendants?










                    --
                    Keep well,
                    Steve Hayes
                    Web: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com
                    http://hayesfam.posterous.com/
                    E-mail: shayes@...
                  • Gillian Mc Kenna
                    Hi Steve, This is what I have for Samuel Ellwood. This information came from Peter Ellwood. None of it appears to be in familysearch. Samuel Ellwood-7 (Edmund
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 18, 2012
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                      Hi Steve,

                      This is what I have for Samuel Ellwood. This information came from Peter Ellwood. None of it appears to be in familysearch.

                      Samuel Ellwood-7 (Edmund Ellwood-6, Edmond Elwood-5, Christopher Elwood-4, Christopher
                      Elwolde-3, Edmund Elwold-2, Edwarde Elwald-1). He was born 1726 in Dufton. Baptism on 13 Oct 1726 in Dufton. He died on 03 Aug 1811. Occupation was Shoemaker.

                      Hannah Barrow. She was born 1731 in Cartmel. She died 1811 [10].
                      Samuel Ellwood and Hannah Barrow. They were married on 23 Nov 1752 in Cartmel [10].

                      They had 4 children.

                      i. John Ellwood. He was born 1754 in Kendal. He married Jane Coultherd. They were married on 19 May 1776 [10]. He died on 01 Dec 1842 in Kendal [10].
                      Occupation was Husbandman [10].

                      ii. Elizabeth Ellwood. She was born 1756 in Kendal.

                      iii. James Ellwood. He was born 1759 in Kendal. He died on 19 Jan 1813 in Kendal [10]. Occupation was Blacksmith [10].

                      iv. Isabel Ellwood. She was born 1763 in Kendal.

                      Regards,

                      Gillian

                      --- In ellwood@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hayes" <hayesstw@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > On 17 Jan 2012 at 18:47, Gillian Mc Kenna wrote:
                      >
                      > > Oh well, so much for dying just after the move from Dufton to Bolton!!
                      > >
                      > > There is an Edmund Ellwood who paid window tax in Dufton in 1777 but this is
                      > > probably our other Edmund who died 1803 who left the will.
                      >
                      > Ive been looking quite a lot at this Edmund (born c 1770, son of Edmund
                      > Ellwood and Anne Rudd) recently -- will send family group sheets to anyone
                      > who is interested for comment/correction.
                      >
                      > He's not our direct ancestor, but several people on the list seem to be
                      > descended from him.
                      >
                      > The only record of a marriage of an Edward to an Elizabeth we have been able
                      > to find is to an Elizabeth Robinson in Carlisle on 14 Oct 1725. But the only
                      > chidren of Edmund and Elizabeth born soon after were all born in Dufton:
                      >
                      > Samuel (1726) m. Hannah Barrow ???
                      > Daniel (1728) m. Hannah Crewdson
                      > Lydia (1730) m. William Robinson
                      > Elizabeth (1732) died in infancy
                      > Ann (1734) m. William Morris
                      > John (1738) died in infancy
                      >
                      > And, as you have shown, around 1740 they moved to Bolton, and were in
                      > financial difficulties there in 1742. Samuel does not appear to have been
                      > with them then. He would have been about 14-16 then. Was he apprenticed
                      > somewhere?
                      >
                      > Samuel seems to be the most problematic, at least for us. Other people's
                      > trees show descendants, but they aren't always consistent with each other,
                      > and we haven't been able to find any confirmatory records on line. Of course
                      > not everything is available on line for checking, and they may have seen
                      > records that have not been transcribed or filmed yet.
                      >
                      > Do you have anything on him and his descendants?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Keep well,
                      > Steve Hayes
                      > Web: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com
                      > http://hayesfam.posterous.com/
                      > E-mail: shayes@...
                      >
                    • nicola.thwaite1@btopenworld.com
                      Dear all, I ve picked up on this old message because I ve been looking further into John Ellwood (b. 1753), son of Samuel Ellwood and Hannah Barrow and I ve
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 9, 2014
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                        Dear all,

                        I've picked up on this old message because I've been looking further into John Ellwood (b. 1753), son of Samuel Ellwood and Hannah Barrow and I've got some different information from that given here, including a more likely death date for John. I thought I'd share it in case it's of interest to anyone else looking into this line.


                        >i. John Ellwood. He was born 1754 in Kendal. He married Jane Coultherd. They were married on 19 May >1776 [10]. He died on 01 Dec 1842 in Kendal [10].  >Occupation was Husbandman [10].

                        John was christened in Cartmel on 17 June 1753, the son of Samuel of Upper Newton (Lancs OPC).  This makes sense because Samuel and Hannah were married at Cartmel in Nov 1752, with Samuel's bond listing him as shoemaker of Newton; they are confirmed as the right couple because Samuel and Hannah were named as paternal grandparents when John's son Timothy was christened at Underbarrow in 1779.
                         
                        John and his son Timothy were farming at Moss End farm, near Lindale, in the late 18th and early 19th century (info from land tax and christenings of Timothy's children) and I have recently seen an image of the register listing the admin of "John Ellwood of Moss End", which is in the National Archives IR 26/312/792. The admin is dated 28 Feb 1803, with the administratrix being John's widow Jane [i.e. Jane Coulthard or Coultherd].  I don't yet know exactly when John died (Cartmel burials aren't on Lancs OPC for this date yet) but it seems that he
                        died in late 1802/early 1803 and is therefore not the 1842 death in Kendal.


                        > ii. Elizabeth Ellwood. She was born 1756 in Kendal.
                        Elizabeth dau of Samuel of Newton was christened at Cartmel 30 May 1756 (Lancs OPC). No further information yet.


                        >iii. James Ellwood. He was born 1759 in Kendal. He died on 19 Jan 1813 in Kendal [10]. Occupation was Blacksmith [10].
                        James son of Samuel of Newton was christened at Cartmel 8 Aug 1759 (Lancs OPC)
                        He was listed at christenings as the blacksmith in Allithwaite and I think he must have married twice, although I haven't confirmed the 1st marriage (which may be that to Mary High in Kendal 16 May 1785) or all his children.  His probable 2nd marriage 27 Sep 1801 at St Mary's Lancaster: James Ellwood blacksmith of Cartmel and Margaret Long spinster of Scofforth, by licence.
                        As he appears to have been living in the Cartmel area, the Kendal death may be another false match, but I haven't found anything yet to confirm or contradict it.


                        >iv. Isabel Ellwood. She was born 1763 in Kendal.
                        Isabel dau of Samuel of Newton was christened at Cartmel 13 Nov 1763 and buried at Cartmel 1 Apr 1773 (both Lancs OPC)


                        Hope this is useful to some of you.  Also does anyone have any confirmed information for the death date of John's father Samuel (b.1726), which I've seen given variously as either 1796 or 1811 but with no source to explain either date.  It's most likely that he also died in the Cartmel area, but both dates fall into the current gap in Cartmel burials online, so I can't yet check this there, and I haven't found a probate/admon anywhere for him.


                        Thanks
                        Nicola

                      • Gillian Mc kenna
                        Hi Nicola, Thanks very much for the updated info for this family. I had most of my previous info from Peter Ellwood. A lot of data can now be verified much
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 14, 2014
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                          Hi Nicola,

                          Thanks very much for the updated info for this family. I had most of my previous info from Peter Ellwood. A lot of data can now be verified much more easily as more and more stuff is available online.

                          I'm afraid that I cannot help you any further. This is not my main line. Maybe Peter will be able to help.

                          Regards,

                          Gillian
                          On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:33 PM, "nicola.thwaite1@..." <nicola.thwaite1@...> wrote:


                          Dear all,
                          I've picked up on this old message because I've been looking further into John Ellwood (b. 1753), son of Samuel Ellwood and Hannah Barrow and I've got some different information from that given here, including a more likely death date for John. I thought I'd share it in case it's of interest to anyone else looking into this line.

                          >i. John Ellwood. He was born 1754 in Kendal. He married Jane Coultherd. They were married on 19 May >1776 [10]. He died on 01 Dec 1842 in Kendal [10].  >Occupation was Husbandman [10].
                          John was christened in Cartmel on 17 June 1753, the son of Samuel of Upper Newton (Lancs OPC).  This makes sense because Samuel and Hannah were married at Cartmel in Nov 1752, with Samuel's bond listing him as shoemaker of Newton; they are confirmed as the right couple because Samuel and Hannah were named as paternal grandparents when John's son Timothy was christened at Underbarrow in 1779.
                           
                          John and his son Timothy were farming at Moss End farm, near Lindale, in the late 18th and early 19th century (info from land tax and christenings of Timothy's children) and I have recently seen an image of the register listing the admin of "John Ellwood of Moss End", which is in the National Archives IR 26/312/792. The admin is dated 28 Feb 1803, with the administratrix being John's widow Jane [i.e. Jane Coulthard or Coultherd].  I don't yet know exactly when John died (Cartmel burials aren't on Lancs OPC for this date yet) but it seems that he
                          died in late 1802/early 1803 and is therefore not the 1842 death in Kendal.

                          > ii. Elizabeth Ellwood. She was born 1756 in Kendal.
                          Elizabeth dau of Samuel of Newton was christened at Cartmel 30 May 1756 (Lancs OPC). No further information yet.

                          >iii. James Ellwood. He was born 1759 in Kendal. He died on 19 Jan 1813 in Kendal [10]. Occupation was Blacksmith [10].
                          James son of Samuel of Newton was christened at Cartmel 8 Aug 1759 (Lancs OPC)
                          He was listed at christenings as the blacksmith in Allithwaite and I think he must have married twice, although I haven't confirmed the 1st marriage (which may be that to Mary High in Kendal 16 May 1785) or all his children.  His probable 2nd marriage 27 Sep 1801 at St Mary's Lancaster: James Ellwood blacksmith of Cartmel and Margaret Long spinster of Scofforth, by licence.
                          As he appears to have been living in the Cartmel area, the Kendal death may be another false match, but I haven't found anything yet to confirm or contradict it.

                          >iv. Isabel Ellwood. She was born 1763 in Kendal.
                          Isabel dau of Samuel of Newton was christened at Cartmel 13 Nov 1763 and buried at Cartmel 1 Apr 1773 (both Lancs OPC)

                          Hope this is useful to some of you.  Also does anyone have any confirmed information for the death date of John's father Samuel (b.1726), which I've seen given variously as either 1796 or 1811 but with no source to explain either date.  It's most likely that he also died in the Cartmel area, but both dates fall into the current gap in Cartmel burials online, so I can't yet check this there, and I haven't found a probate/admon anywhere for him.

                          Thanks
                          Nicola




                        • Steve Hayes
                          ... I m not sure who said what here, as the attributions seem to be somewhat mixed up. I have recorded this in our notes as: John was christened in Cartmel
                          Message 12 of 16 , May 7 9:19 PM
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                            On 9 Apr 2014 at 4:33, nicola.thwaite1@btopenworld.c wrote:

                            > Dear all,
                            > I've picked up on this old message because I've been looking further into
                            > John Ellwood (b. 1753), son of Samuel Ellwood and Hannah Barrow and I've got
                            > some different information from that given here, including a more likely
                            > death date for John. I thought I'd share it in case it's of interest to
                            > anyone else looking into this line.
                            >
                            >
                            > >i. John Ellwood. He was born 1754 in Kendal. He married Jane Coultherd. They
                            > were married on 19 May >1776 [10]. He died on 01 Dec 1842 in Kendal [10].
                            > >Occupation was Husbandman [10]. John was christened in Cartmel on 17 June
                            > 1753, the son of Samuel of Upper Newton (Lancs OPC). This makes sense
                            > because Samuel and Hannah were married at Cartmel in Nov 1752, with Samuel's
                            > bond listing him as shoemaker of Newton; they are confirmed as the right
                            > couple because Samuel and Hannah were named as paternal grandparents when
                            > John's son Timothy was christened at Underbarrow in 1779.
                            >
                            > John and his son Timothy were farming at Moss End farm, near Lindale, in the
                            > late 18th and early 19th century (info from land tax and christenings of
                            > Timothy's children) and I have recently seen an image of the register listing
                            > the admin of "John Ellwood of Moss End", which is in the National Archives IR
                            > 26/312/792. The admin is dated 28 Feb 1803, with the administratrix being
                            > John's widow Jane [i.e. Jane Coulthard or Coultherd]. I don't yet know
                            > exactly when John died (Cartmel burials aren't on Lancs OPC for this date yet)
                            > but it seems that he died in late 1802/early 1803 and is therefore not the
                            > 1842 death in Kendal.

                            I'm not sure who said what here, as the attributions seem to be somewhat
                            mixed up.

                            I have recorded this in our notes as:

                            "John was christened in Cartmel on 17 June 1753, the son of Samuel of Upper
                            Newton (Lancs OPC).  This makes sense because Samuel and Hannah were married
                            at Cartmel in Nov 1752, with Samuel's bond listing him as shoemaker of
                            Newton; they are confirmed as the right couple because Samuel and Hannah were
                            named as paternal grandparents when John's son Timothy was christened at
                            Underbarrow in 1779.

                            John and his son Timothy were farming at Moss End farm, near Lindale, in the
                            late 18th and early 19th century (info from land tax and christenings of
                            Timothy's children) and I have recently seen an image of the register listing
                            the admin of "John Ellwood of Moss End", which is in the National Archives IR
                            26/312/792. The admin is dated 28 Feb 1803, with the administratrix being
                            John's widow Jane [i.e. Jane Coulthard or Coultherd]. I don't yet know
                            exactly when John died (Cartmel burials aren't on Lancs OPC for this date
                            yet) but it seems that he died in late 1802/early 1803 and is therefore not
                            the 1842 death in Kendal. (E-mail from Gillian McKenna on Ellwood list 14 Apr
                            2014)."

                            Is that information correct? Did this come from Nicola Thwaite or Gillian
                            McKenna?

                            This is one of the links we are trying to work out - was Samuel Ellwood, the
                            father of John the same Samuel who was son of Edmund Ellwoodn and Elizabeth
                            Robinson?




                            --
                            Steve Hayes
                            E-mail: shayes@...
                            Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
                            Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
                            Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
                            Fax: 086-548-2525
                          • gillianmckenna
                            Hi Steve, The baptism of Samuel came from familysearch. This family connections came from Peter Ellwood. Regards, Gillian
                            Message 13 of 16 , May 8 1:50 AM
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                              Hi Steve,

                              The baptism of Samuel came from familysearch. This family connections came from Peter Ellwood.

                              Regards,

                              Gillian
                            • Steve Hayes
                              ... I m copying this reply to the list as well, in case anyone else has some ideas, and don t want to have to write this twice. But yes, one source said that
                              Message 14 of 16 , May 8 11:28 PM
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                                On 8 May 2014 at 14:36, Nicola Thwaite wrote:

                                > Hi Steve,
                                > I'll send a full reply to the list when I've got my files to hand and can add
                                > in some supporting evidence.  But just a quick message here in my lunch hour
                                > to save holding you up: I have found no evidence so far that Edmund's son
                                > Samuel of Dufton and the Samuel who married Hannah Barrow are the same man and
                                > I was highly dubious of it when I first came across it in other trees because
                                > - as you say - the places were so far apart, so it seemed likely to be one of
                                > the 'find any christening that matches' errors.

                                I'm copying this reply to the list as well, in case anyone else has some
                                ideas, and don't want to have to write this twice.

                                But yes, one source said that the children attributed to Samuel Ellwood and
                                Hannah Barrow were born in Dufton. Another said that they were born in
                                Kendal, and yet they were baptised in Cartmel.

                                I've heard of people who have moved away from home taking their children back
                                to their home place to be baptised with the family present, but not going
                                back for them to be born there, and then baptised at the new place.

                                Why would Hannah travel to Dufton to give birth, and then trundle back to
                                Cartmel for the baptism? And not once, but four times for each of the four
                                kids.

                                And, if Samuel were born in Dufton and she in Kendal, and they were married
                                in Cartmel, why would she go back to Kendal for that purpose? It just doesn't
                                make sense.

                                So I'm hoping that someone else on the list may have better information.

                                There are similar problems with Samuel's younger brother Daniel -- we have
                                long lines of descent attributed to him, but the vital evidence showing that
                                the Daniel was the son of Edmund Ellwood and Elizabeth Robinson i9s weak, or
                                lacking altogether.

                                It would be nice to be able to link those huge lines of cousins to our family
                                tree, but we'd like a bit more evidence before doing so.

                                >   I joined the Ellwood list
                                > partly in hope that someone there would hold the crucial piece of evidence
                                > (perhaps a will), and the information there on the Ellwood expulsion from
                                > Dufton did seem to make it more plausible, although I am still
                                > treating it just as a working theory at present.   In its favour, I think, is
                                > the fact that Samuel isn't listed with the family when they are expelled from
                                > Dufton, and it's entirely plausible that he'd gone off to Kendal by then to
                                > learn the shoemaking trade.  I've recently found a reference to a document
                                > about a dispute between cordwainers in Kendal which may refer to him during
                                > his time there as an apprentice (although I think it's unlikely it'll add
                                > anything to his lineage), but I haven't seen it yet. 
                                > From Kendal, it's certainly possible that he may have gone to work in
                                > Cartmel.   So the Dufton link is definitely plausible, but I'd still like to
                                > find some evidence ...

                                Yes, it's not impossible (though I think that Kendal or Dufton births for the
                                children is pretty impossible if they were baptised in Cartmel.

                                It is possible that he moved to Kendal and then to Cartmel, or that he went
                                directly to Cartmel, perhaps because other people moved there at the same
                                time, or perhaps it was he that set the trend.

                                But it would be nice to have a bit more evidence.


                                > Is it likely that the person who has given the 'Dufton' births for Samuel and
                                > Hannah's children was simply assuming this because of the family history?  
                                > Samuel was working in Newton-in-Cartmel and all the children were christened
                                > there described as 'of Upper Newton' etc., so I think it's almost certain they
                                > were all born there and not in Kendal or Dufton.  But I'll find chapter and
                                > verse for my full reply to the list.
                                >
                                > Best wishes
                                > Nicola
                                >
                                >
                                > ________________________________
                                > From: Steve Hayes <hayesstw@...>
                                > To: nicola.thwaite1@...
                                > Cc: val.hayes@...
                                > Sent: Thursday, 8 May 2014, 5:19
                                > Subject: Re: [ellwood] Re: Peter Ellwood's chart
                                >
                                >
                                > On 9 Apr 2014 at 4:33, nicola.thwaite1@btopenworld.c wrote:
                                >
                                > > Dear all,
                                > >  I've picked up on this old message because I've been looking further into  
                                > >John Ellwood (b. 1753), son of Samuel Ellwood and Hannah Barrow and I've got
                                > >  some different information from that given here, including a more likely  
                                > >death date for John. I thought I'd share it in case it's of interest to  
                                > >anyone else looking into this line.
                                >
                                > I've replied to this on the Ellwood list, but am sending this to you alone
                                > because it is easier to do that when attaching family group sheets, but I
                                > would appreciate it if any comments you make in a reply are sent to the list.
                                >
                                > What you can see in the charts is what appears to be conflicting information
                                > about the children of John Ellwood and Jane Coulthred.
                                >
                                > According to Barbara Newby they were born in Dufton.
                                >
                                > According to you (or someone else -- the attributions are not clear) they were
                                > born in Kendal but baptised in Cartmel.
                                >
                                > While the three places are not all that far apart by modern standards, it
                                > would have been quite a trek by 18th century standards, and the children could
                                > not have been born in two places.
                                >
                                > So I'd be grateful if you could have a look at these family group sheets and
                                > let us know what you think is the most likely scenario, as you seem to have
                                > more evidence for these families than anyone else.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --
                                > Keep well,
                                > Steve Hayes
                                > Blog:    http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com/
                                > Web:    http://www.khanya.org.za/famhist1.htm
                                > E-mail: shayes@...
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > The following section of this message contains a file attachment
                                > prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.
                                > If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system,
                                > you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.
                                > If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.
                                >
                                >   ---- File information -----------
                                >     File:  EllwoodSam.pdf
                                >     Date:  8 May 2014, 6:11
                                >     Size:  43170 bytes.
                                >     Type:  Acrobat


                                --
                                Keep well,
                                Steve Hayes
                                Blog: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com
                                Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/famhist1.htm
                                E-mail: shayes@...
                              • Nicola Thwaite
                                Dear Steve et al. Sorry if my message of 9th got garbled in transit so that it wasn t clear which bits were me and which the original message I was quoting
                                Message 15 of 16 , May 9 1:48 AM
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                                  Dear Steve et al.
                                  Sorry if my message of 9th got garbled in transit so that it wasn't clear which bits were me and which the original message I was quoting from.  For each of the people listed, I copied the information from the original message with > and then added in my notes. So the bit you quote as now recorded in your notes as from Gillian:
                                   "John was christened in Cartmel on 17 June 1753, the son of Samuel of Upper  Newton (Lancs OPC).  ... [to] it seems that he died in late 1802/early 1803 and is therefore not  the 1842 death in Kendal. (E-mail from Gillian McKenna on Ellwood list 14 Apr 2014)."
                                  was in fact all me on 9 April. So let me know if you want to query anything.

                                  re: the link between the Cartmel and Dufton Ellwoods: I'm working backwards through the Cartmel Ellwoods from Mary ( (1811-1895) - I spelt out the direct line in my first email to the group (30.12.2013 if anyone wants to check) so won't repeat here - and have got back to the Samuel Ellwood who married Hannah Barrow at Cartmel in 1752.  But I haven't yet found any evidence to prove (or disprove) the widespread supposition that he is the same man as Samuel Ellwood, son of Edmund, christened at Dufton in 1726.   The Cartmel Samuel is a shoemaker who was clearly working in Newton in Cartmel from at least the time of his marriage: Samuel and Hannah were married by licence: the marriage bond calls him 'Samuel Elwood of Newton in the parish of Cartmel ... shoemaker'.  It's possible he learnt his trade in Kendal.  I've recently found this reference to a document in Kendal RO
                                  WQ/SR/105/4  7 April 1739
                                  Contents: Recognizance of Benjamin Gurnal, cordwainer, Robert Bell husbandman both of Crosthwaite, Thomas Holm of Kendal innkeeper, for appearance of Benjamin and behaviour towards [Sam]uel Ellwood - discharged.

                                  If this is the Dufton man, he would have been only 12/13 here, so presumably still an apprentice, possibly to Benjamin Gurnal.  I don't hold out much hope that this document will provide any information on Samuel's lineage but it might give an idea whether he is of full age or a young apprentice cordwainer, so if anyone has easy access to Kendal they might like to check to see if it contains anything else useful.    If this _ is_ the Dufton Samuel, it would presumably explain why he was not named with the family's other children on the 1741 removal order: this absence seems to be a point in favour of him being the same man.  But the shoemaker may be from a Kendal family: there are clearly Ellwoods already in Kendal in the late 17th century, although I can't see a Samuel baptism.  Has anyone done any work on if/how these Kendal Ellwoods relate to the Dufton family?

                                  You asked also about the baptisms I gave you for Samuel and Hannah's children, noting that their births have previously been recorded at either Dufton or Kendal. I suspect these were just suppositions based on the possible origins of Samuel.  Obviously I don't have any conclusive evidence of place of birth as we're pre-registration, but at the time of their christenings in Cartmel, their father's place of residence is always given as Newton or Upper Newton (Lancs Online Parish Clerk) and it seems most plausible that they were born there. As you note, if Samuel and Hannah had gone to the trouble of returning to the family home in either Kendal or Dufton for each birth, the children would almost certainly have been christened there too ...

                                  Best wishes
                                  Nicola

                                  From: Steve Hayes <hayesstw@...>
                                  To: ellwood@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, 8 May 2014, 5:19
                                  Subject: [ellwood] John Ellwood married Jane Coulthred
                                   
                                  On 9 Apr 2014 at 4:33, nicola.thwaite1@btopenworld.c wrote: > Dear all, > I've picked up on this old message because I've been looking further into > John Ellwood (b. 1753), son of Samuel Ellwood and Hannah Barrow and I've got > some different information from that given here, including a more likely > death date for John. I thought I'd share it in case it's of interest to > anyone else looking into this line. > > John was christened in Cartmel on 17 June > 1753, the son of Samuel of Upper Newton (Lancs OPC). This makes sense > because Samuel and Hannah were married at Cartmel in Nov 1752, with Samuel's > bond listing him as shoemaker of Newton; they are confirmed as the right > couple because Samuel and Hannah were named as paternal grandparents when > John's son Timothy was christened at Underbarrow in 1779. > > John and his son Timothy were farming at Moss End farm, near Lindale, in the > late 18th and early 19th century (info from land tax and christenings of > Timothy's children) and I have recently seen an image of the register listing > the admin of "John Ellwood of Moss End", which is in the National Archives IR > 26/312/792. The admin is dated 28 Feb 1803, with the administratrix being > John's widow Jane [i.e. Jane Coulthard or Coultherd]. I don't yet know > exactly when John died (Cartmel burials aren't on Lancs OPC for this date yet) > but it seems that he died in late 1802/early 1803 and is therefore not the > 1842 death in Kendal. I'm not sure who said what here, as the attributions seem to be somewhat mixed up. I have recorded this in our notes as: "John was christened in Cartmel on 17 June 1753, the son of Samuel of Upper Newton (Lancs OPC).  This makes sense because Samuel and Hannah were married at Cartmel in Nov 1752, with Samuel's bond listing him as shoemaker of Newton; they are confirmed as the right couple because Samuel and Hannah were named as paternal grandparents when John's son Timothy was christened at Underbarrow in 1779. John and his son Timothy were farming at Moss End farm, near Lindale, in the late 18th and early 19th century (info from land tax and christenings of Timothy's children) and I have recently seen an image of the register listing the admin of "John Ellwood of Moss End", which is in the National Archives IR 26/312/792. The admin is dated 28 Feb 1803, with the administratrix being John's widow Jane [i.e. Jane Coulthard or Coultherd]. I don't yet know exactly when John died (Cartmel burials aren't on Lancs OPC for this date yet) but it seems that he died in late 1802/early 1803 and is therefore not the 1842 death in Kendal. (E-mail from Gillian McKenna on Ellwood list 14 Apr 2014)." Is that information correct? Did this come from Nicola Thwaite or Gillian McKenna? This is one of the links we are trying to work out - was Samuel Ellwood, the father of John the same Samuel who was son of Edmund Ellwoodn and Elizabeth Robinson? -- Steve Hayes E-mail: shayes@... Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727 Fax: 086-548-2525
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