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Re: [ellwood] Re: John and Agnes Ellwood

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  • Steve Hayes
    ... Yes, that seems to be OK, and that seems to be the John who married Agnest Thirnbeck. ... Trouble is, the only likely John on FamilySearch was baptised in
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 9, 2011
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      On 9 Dec 2011 at 12:22, Gillian Mc Kenna wrote:

      > From census returns of John & Mary, the parents, I can see 5 children:
      > Elizabeth b1821 Crosby Ravensworth, John b1825 CR, Margaret b1829 CR, Hannah
      > b1832 CR & Agnes b1835 CR.
      >
      > Looking at the Crosby Ravensworth parish records, some but not all children
      > were baptised at CR. I can see:
      >
      > William bap 12/02/1819 son John & Mary farmer of Scout Green (William d1820)
      > Elizabeth bap 05/03/1821 dau John & Mary farmer of Scout Green Jane bap
      > 12/10/1831 dau John & Mary farmer of Oddendale Hannah bap 06/09/1832 dau John
      > & Mary farmer of Oddendale Agnes bap 14/6/1835 dau of John & Mary farmer of
      > Oddendale.
      >
      > The only baptism of the son John I can see (familysearch) is in Orton
      > 10/7/1825 and also in Orton for Margaret 03/05/1829 Orton. Orton is a village
      > next door to CR. The family could have been living Scout Green CR, then Orton,
      > then back to Oddendale in CR.

      Yes, that seems to be OK, and that seems to be the John who married Agnest
      Thirnbeck.
      >
      > John the father was born 1792 in either Kirkby Stephen (1851 census) or Kirkby
      > Thore (1861 census)!! If William b1819 was the eldest son of John & Mary, it
      > could be that John's father was called William also?? That's if they followed
      > the traditional naming pattern.

      Trouble is, the only likely John on FamilySearch was baptised in Kirkby
      Stephen, and shown as the son of Mark and Elizabeth, who seem to have not
      other connections.

      But there are also two earlier John Ellwoods who married Agneses:

      John Ellwood born in Brampton about 1797 married an Agnes Hoggarth born in
      Cartmel, Lancashire about 1797. They were married in Kendal in 1826, and had
      two daughters, Margaret and Agnes.

      Margaret and Agnes two brothers, Anthony and Thomas Barnes and both had
      families. Agnes Ellwood (born Hoggarth) was staying with her daughter
      Margaret in the 1881 census, and died in 1892. They all lived at Strickland
      Ketel.

      Quite straightforward, until you look at the Hoggarth side. There is a niece,
      Agnes Hoggarth (aged 3) staying with John and Agnes Ellwood in the 1851
      census, born in Kendal. OK, she could be a daughter of Agnes senior's
      brother, but in 1862 she appears, aged 13, staying with one of the Barnes
      brothers, as a servant. And also with them is yet another Agnes Ellwood, aged
      15, born in Ambleside.

      The younger of these appears to be the daughter of Henry and Mary, baptised
      in Kendal in 1847. But there are TWO Henrys and Marys, one couple married in
      1830 and the other in 1835. And one one of these couples had a son called
      John Ellwood Hoggarth, born 1841, died 1845. These Henry Hoggarths surely
      can't be brothers, though perhaps they might be cousins. So is Agnes born
      1847 the sister or perhaps the second cousin of John Ellwood Hoggarth, born
      1841?

      And then there is the OTHER John and Agnes Ellwood who lived in Cartmel,
      Lancashire (where Agnes Hoggarth is shown in the censuses as having been
      born). Was she yet another Agnes Hoggarth?

      The more we discover, the more confusing it seems to get!


      --
      Steve Hayes
      E-mail: shayes@...
      Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr)
      Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
      Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
      Fax: 086-548-2525
    • Colin Jackson
      Hi to you both. Our interest in the Ellwood family stems from Colin’s Grandmother Mary Ann Anderson Ellwood whom we have been able to race back to Dufton,
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 11, 2011
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        Hi to you both. Our interest in the Ellwood family stems from Colin’s Grandmother Mary Ann Anderson Ellwood whom we have been able to race back to Dufton, due to both Bruce Morrison’s research and that of Adrian Taylor. I can’t connect John Ellwood 1792 to the family except by reference to his baptism record on the Mormon site, son of Mark Ellwood and Elizabeth Huck; but I can’t find their marriage record. Another visit to the records office in Whitehaven or Kendal is necessary, I think. I did a lot of research on the Ellwood and Pickering family about six years ago and have left it alone since to concentrate on my family history. You have renewed our interest.

        I have posted my photo, on your site, of a plaque in Dufton Church. It reads’ Mr Jno Ellwood by deed dated July 16th 1835 gave £6 6s out of Sandrigg’s Estate to be distributed every Christmas Day as follows,viz.:to 10 poor widows or poor householders of the Parish of Dufton, also to 5 poor widows or householders of the township of Knock 5s and a half stone loaf of the finest Wheaten Bread each. The overplus to be appropriated towards the education of poor widows’ sons of the Parish of Dufton at Dufton school’. I wonder if this is the same John? It’s not clear whether or not this is part of his inheritance or a good will gesture during his lifetime. What do you think?

        Best wishes Hilary

         

        From: ellwood@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ellwood@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hayes
        Sent: 09 December 2011 22:04
        To: Gillian Mc Kenna; ellwood@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [ellwood] Re: John and Agnes Ellwood

         

         

        On 9 Dec 2011 at 12:22, Gillian Mc Kenna wrote:

        > From census returns of John & Mary, the parents, I can see 5 children:
        > Elizabeth b1821 Crosby Ravensworth, John b1825 CR, Margaret b1829 CR, >
        > Looking at the Crosby Ravensworth parish records, some but not all children
        > were baptised at CR. I can see:
        >
        > William bap 12/02/1819 son John & Mary farmer of Scout Green (William d1820)
        > Elizabeth bap 05/03/1821 dau John & Mary farmer of Scout Green Jane bap
        > 12/10/1831 dau John & Mary farmer of Oddendale Hannah bap 06/09/1832 dau John
        > & Mary farmer of Oddendale Agnes bap 14/6/1835 dau of John & Mary farmer of
        > Oddendale.
        >
        > The only baptism of the son John I can see (familysearch) is in Orton
        > 10/7/1825 and also in Orton for Margaret 03/05/1829 Orton. Orton is a village
        > next door to CR. The family could have been living Scout Green CR, then Orton,
        > then back to Oddendale in CR.

        Yes, that seems to be OK, and that seems to be the John who married Agnest
        Thirnbeck.
        >
        > John the father was born 1792 in either Kirkby Stephen (1851 census) or Kirkby
        > Thore (1861 census)!! If William b1819 was the eldest son of John & Mary, it
        > could be that John's father was called William also?? That's if they followed
        > the traditional naming pattern.

        Trouble is, the only likely John on FamilySearch was baptised in Kirkby
        Stephen, and shown as the son of Mark and Elizabeth, who seem to have not
        other connections.

        But there are also two earlier John Ellwoods who married Agneses:

        John Ellwood born in Brampton about 1797 married an Agnes Hoggarth born in
        Cartmel, Lancashire about 1797. They were married in Kendal in 1826, and had
        two daughters, Margaret and Agnes.

        Margaret and Agnes two brothers, Anthony and Thomas Barnes and both had
        families. Agnes Ellwood (born Hoggarth) was staying with her daughter
        Margaret in the 1881 census, and died in 1892. They all lived at Strickland
        Ketel.

        Quite straightforward, until you look at the Hoggarth side. There is a niece,
        Agnes Hoggarth (aged 3) staying with John and Agnes Ellwood in the 1851
        census, born in Kendal. OK, she could be a daughter of Agnes senior's
        brother, but in 1862 she appears, aged 13, staying with one of the Barnes
        brothers, as a servant. And also with them is yet another Agnes Ellwood, aged
        15, born in Ambleside.

        The younger of these appears to be the daughter of Henry and Mary, baptised
        in Kendal in 1847. But there are TWO Henrys and Marys, one couple married in
        1830 and the other in 1835. And one one of these couples had a son called
        John Ellwood Hoggarth, born 1841, died 1845. These Henry Hoggarths surely
        can't be brothers, though perhaps they might be cousins. So is Agnes born
        1847 the sister or perhaps the second cousin of John Ellwood Hoggarth, born
        1841?

        And then there is the OTHER John and Agnes Ellwood who lived in Cartmel,
        Lancashire (where Agnes Hoggarth is shown in the censuses as having been
        born). Was she yet another Agnes Hoggarth?

        The more we discover, the more confusing it seems to get!

        --
        Steve Hayes
        E-mail: shayes@...
        Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr)
        Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
        Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
        Fax: 086-548-2525

      • Gillian Mc Kenna
        Hi Hilary, I haven t come across Mark Ellwood & Elizabeth Huck in my research up until now. How are they connected to the Dufton Ellwoods? Regarding the plaque
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 12, 2011
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          Hi Hilary,

          I haven't come across Mark Ellwood & Elizabeth Huck in my research up until now. How are they connected to the Dufton Ellwoods?

          Regarding the plaque in the church in Dufton, The John Ellwood who set up this charity was born in 1721 Dufton the son of Thomas Ellwood & Mary Westmorland. This family farmed at Sandriggs Dufton. John b1762 married Alpha Draper 26/6/1766 in Whitehaven. John died 6/6/1837 Whitehaven. He left a will which details the charity. John & Alpha had no issue.

          Regards,

          Gillian

          --- In ellwood@yahoogroups.com, "Colin Jackson" <colin@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi to you both. Our interest in the Ellwood family stems from Colin's
          > Grandmother Mary Ann Anderson Ellwood whom we have been able to race back to
          > Dufton, due to both Bruce Morrison's research and that of Adrian Taylor. I
          > can't connect John Ellwood 1792 to the family except by reference to his
          > baptism record on the Mormon site, son of Mark Ellwood and Elizabeth Huck;
          > but I can't find their marriage record. Another visit to the records office
          > in Whitehaven or Kendal is necessary, I think. I did a lot of research on
          > the Ellwood and Pickering family about six years ago and have left it alone
          > since to concentrate on my family history. You have renewed our interest.
          >
          > I have posted my photo, on your site, of a plaque in Dufton Church. It
          > reads' Mr Jno Ellwood by deed dated July 16th 1835 gave £6 6s out of
          > Sandrigg's Estate to be distributed every Christmas Day as follows,viz.:to
          > 10 poor widows or poor householders of the Parish of Dufton, also to 5 poor
          > widows or householders of the township of Knock 5s and a half stone loaf of
          > the finest Wheaten Bread each. The overplus to be appropriated towards the
          > education of poor widows' sons of the Parish of Dufton at Dufton school'. I
          > wonder if this is the same John? It's not clear whether or not this is part
          > of his inheritance or a good will gesture during his lifetime. What do you
          > think?
          >
          > Best wishes Hilary
          >
          >
          >
          > From: ellwood@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ellwood@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          > Steve Hayes
          > Sent: 09 December 2011 22:04
          > To: Gillian Mc Kenna; ellwood@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [ellwood] Re: John and Agnes Ellwood
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > On 9 Dec 2011 at 12:22, Gillian Mc Kenna wrote:
          >
          > > From census returns of John & Mary, the parents, I can see 5 children:
          > > Elizabeth b1821 Crosby Ravensworth, John b1825 CR, Margaret b1829 CR, >
          > > Looking at the Crosby Ravensworth parish records, some but not all
          > children
          > > were baptised at CR. I can see:
          > >
          > > William bap 12/02/1819 son John & Mary farmer of Scout Green (William
          > d1820)
          > > Elizabeth bap 05/03/1821 dau John & Mary farmer of Scout Green Jane bap
          > > 12/10/1831 dau John & Mary farmer of Oddendale Hannah bap 06/09/1832 dau
          > John
          > > & Mary farmer of Oddendale Agnes bap 14/6/1835 dau of John & Mary farmer
          > of
          > > Oddendale.
          > >
          > > The only baptism of the son John I can see (familysearch) is in Orton
          > > 10/7/1825 and also in Orton for Margaret 03/05/1829 Orton. Orton is a
          > village
          > > next door to CR. The family could have been living Scout Green CR, then
          > Orton,
          > > then back to Oddendale in CR.
          >
          > Yes, that seems to be OK, and that seems to be the John who married Agnest
          > Thirnbeck.
          > >
          > > John the father was born 1792 in either Kirkby Stephen (1851 census) or
          > Kirkby
          > > Thore (1861 census)!! If William b1819 was the eldest son of John & Mary,
          > it
          > > could be that John's father was called William also?? That's if they
          > followed
          > > the traditional naming pattern.
          >
          > Trouble is, the only likely John on FamilySearch was baptised in Kirkby
          > Stephen, and shown as the son of Mark and Elizabeth, who seem to have not
          > other connections.
          >
          > But there are also two earlier John Ellwoods who married Agneses:
          >
          > John Ellwood born in Brampton about 1797 married an Agnes Hoggarth born in
          > Cartmel, Lancashire about 1797. They were married in Kendal in 1826, and had
          >
          > two daughters, Margaret and Agnes.
          >
          > Margaret and Agnes two brothers, Anthony and Thomas Barnes and both had
          > families. Agnes Ellwood (born Hoggarth) was staying with her daughter
          > Margaret in the 1881 census, and died in 1892. They all lived at Strickland
          > Ketel.
          >
          > Quite straightforward, until you look at the Hoggarth side. There is a
          > niece,
          > Agnes Hoggarth (aged 3) staying with John and Agnes Ellwood in the 1851
          > census, born in Kendal. OK, she could be a daughter of Agnes senior's
          > brother, but in 1862 she appears, aged 13, staying with one of the Barnes
          > brothers, as a servant. And also with them is yet another Agnes Ellwood,
          > aged
          > 15, born in Ambleside.
          >
          > The younger of these appears to be the daughter of Henry and Mary, baptised
          > in Kendal in 1847. But there are TWO Henrys and Marys, one couple married in
          >
          > 1830 and the other in 1835. And one one of these couples had a son called
          > John Ellwood Hoggarth, born 1841, died 1845. These Henry Hoggarths surely
          > can't be brothers, though perhaps they might be cousins. So is Agnes born
          > 1847 the sister or perhaps the second cousin of John Ellwood Hoggarth, born
          > 1841?
          >
          > And then there is the OTHER John and Agnes Ellwood who lived in Cartmel,
          > Lancashire (where Agnes Hoggarth is shown in the censuses as having been
          > born). Was she yet another Agnes Hoggarth?
          >
          > The more we discover, the more confusing it seems to get!
          >
          > --
          > Steve Hayes
          > E-mail: shayes@... <mailto:shayes%40dunelm.org.uk>
          > Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr)
          > Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
          > Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
          > Fax: 086-548-2525
          >
        • Steve Hayes
          ... Only that they are shown as the parents of the John Ellwood who was baptised at Kirkby Stephen in 1792, and this John Ellwood appears to be the father of
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 15, 2011
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            On 12 Dec 2011 at 10:28, Gillian Mc Kenna wrote:

            > I haven't come across Mark Ellwood & Elizabeth Huck in my research up until
            > now. How are they connected to the Dufton Ellwoods?

            Only that they are shown as the parents of the John Ellwood who was baptised
            at Kirkby Stephen in 1792, and this John Ellwood appears to be the father of
            the one who married Agnes Thirnbeck.




            --
            Steve Hayes
            E-mail: shayes@...
            Web: http://hayesstw.tumblr.com/ (follow me on Tumblr)
            Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
            Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727
            Fax: 086-548-2525
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