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Re: Is this translation right?

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  • elee3533
    ... after the One ... as a model for ... I have gone under the gun, so to speak, about wanted to learn the writing of Quenya in the style of the ring script,
    Message 1 of 15 , May 1, 2002
      > My problem with the whole thing is modeling a wedding ring
      after the One
      > Ring. Why use a tool of evil, deceit and enslavement to serve
      as a model for
      > a token of love and commitment? Seems pretty perverse!
      >
      > Just my opinion.
      >
      > Cuio mae, Danny.
      >
      >

      I have gone under the gun, so to speak, about wanted to learn
      the writing of Quenya in the style of the ring script, which is
      Sauron's handwriting, apparently. If one goes back to the
      Silmarillion and reads about Sauron's beginnings, we find he
      wasn't always an evil dude. Like any of us could be, he became.
      It's a beautiful script, simply. So if someone wanted to reclaim an
      object or a word or a person gone "bad" and turn it to good, why
      not? And a wedding ring that could make you invisible may come
      in quite handy one day!
    • Danny Andriës
      ... The handwriting on the One Ring itself is indeed Sauron s handwriting, but that doesn t mean that Sauron actually invented that particular style of
      Message 2 of 15 , May 1, 2002
        Teithant Esther Lee:
        >I have gone under the gun, so to speak, about wanted to learn
        >the writing of Quenya in the style of the ring script, which is
        >Sauron's handwriting, apparently.

        The handwriting on the One Ring itself is indeed Sauron's handwriting, but
        that doesn't mean that Sauron actually invented that particular style of
        calligraphy. It could very well have been copied from a decorative script
        used by Elven scribes, maybe even F�anor himself. Who knows?

        >If one goes back to the
        >Silmarillion and reads about Sauron's beginnings, we find he
        >wasn't always an evil dude.

        At the time of the forging of the rings of power, he was indisputably evil.

        >It's a beautiful script, simply.

        It's a very beautiful script, no question. And I have used it for many
        tengwar calligraphy projects; it seems to be a favourite among those who ask
        me to design tengwar tattoos for them. I have no objections to the script
        itself. My objection is the combined imagery of a ring + the script + an
        inscription based on the ring inscription.

        >So if someone wanted to reclaim an
        >object or a word or a person gone "bad" and turn it to good, why
        >not?

        The One Ring was not an object 'gone "bad"'... it was bad at its inception.
        It was designed solely for an evil purpose. And it's clear in 'The Lord of
        the Rings' that the One Ring could not be used for good. The wearer
        inevitably becomes corrupted little by little.

        And a wedding ring that could make you invisible may come
        >in quite handy one day!

        And the cynical might well say that a symbol of domination and enslavement
        is a very apt image of a wedding ring!

        Cuio mae, Danny.

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      • fedewan2002
        Then Which is the correct translation. Can you write it for me? And about the ring: I won t write those words in the black speech, but in Quenya. And the most
        Message 3 of 15 , May 2, 2002
          Then Which is the correct translation. Can you write it for me?

          And about the ring: I won't write those words in the black speech,
          but in Quenya.
          And the most important thing is: The book is called The Lord of the
          Rings. And everything revolves around the ring. And that doesn't make
          it perverse. Though I understand what you are saying. But take it
          mora as a symbol to us (my girlfriend and I). It's about LOTR. Not
          about the ring.
          If it makes you feel better :) She will give me Arwen's pendant. The
          one she gives to Aragorn in the movie.



          --- In elfscript@y..., "Danny Andriës" <tegilbor@h...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > >From: "fedewan2002" <fedewan2002@y...>
          > >Reply-To: elfscript@y...
          > >To: elfscript@y...
          > >Subject: [elfscript] Is this translation right?
          > >Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:10:42 -0000
          > >
          > >Gildor translated this. But he doesn't know if it's right.
          > >Someone help us.
          > >
          > >"One ring to show our love,
          > >One ring to bind us,
          > >One ring to seal our love
          > >And forever to entwine us."
          > >
          > >
          > >er-chorf thedad velleth viin
          > >er-chorf ven gwedhed
          > >er-chorf bronnad velleth viin
          > >ah an-uir ven gonathrad
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >my most tentative reconstruction is verb *theda- < *the-ta- < THE >
          > >*the-ja- > thia- for "show", i would like some more oppinions on
          > >this :)
          > >(also i am not sure whether men is lenited before a gerund)
          >
          > I doubt that 'men' would be lenited in this position; I don't see
          any reason
          > for it. *theda: well, it's a good guess, and I don't know of any
          better
          > suggestion.
          >
          > My problem with the whole thing is modeling a wedding ring after
          the One
          > Ring. Why use a tool of evil, deceit and enslavement to serve as a
          model for
          > a token of love and commitment? Seems pretty perverse!
          >
          > Just my opinion.
          >
          > Cuio mae, Danny.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > _________________________________________________________________
          > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
          > http://www.hotmail.com
        • Gildor Inglorion
          teithant fedewan2002 ... * what Danny says is correct, of course.. :) so you must replace ven with men ... but in Quenya. * but we translated it in Sindarin,
          Message 4 of 15 , May 2, 2002

            teithant fedewan2002

            > Then Which is the correct translation. Can you write it for me?

            * what Danny says is correct, of course.. :) so you must replace ven with men

            > And about the ring: I won't write those words in the black speech,

            but in Quenya.

            * but we translated it in Sindarin, as you asked!



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          • fedewan2002
            Jajaja You are right Gildor. I mean the elvish letters i will use are not the ones of the ring. Now that you told me that is Sindarin, I will use Sindarin
            Message 5 of 15 , May 2, 2002
              Jajaja You are right Gildor.
              I mean the elvish letters i will use are not the ones of the ring.
              Now that you told me that is Sindarin, I will use Sindarin letters.

              Trank You Gildor.



              --- In elfscript@y..., Gildor Inglorion <elfiness@y...> wrote:
              >
              > teithant fedewan2002
              >
              > > Then Which is the correct translation. Can you write it for me?
              >
              > * what Danny says is correct, of course.. :) so you must replace
              ven with men
              >
              > > And about the ring: I won't write those words in the black
              speech,
              > but in Quenya.
              >
              > * but we translated it in Sindarin, as you asked!
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > ÁðïêôÞóôå ôçí äùñåÜí óáò@... äéåýèõíóç óôï Yahoo! Mail.
            • jaedaduck
              Hi! i m planning to get a tatoo and i want it to be in tengwar cursive. I was wondering if anyone knew how to write my name in this language. If you do, i
              Message 6 of 15 , May 16, 2002
                Hi! i'm planning to get a tatoo and i want it to be in tengwar
                cursive. I was wondering if anyone knew how to write my name in this
                language. If you do, i would appreciate it if u can e-mail me how it
                looks like. My name is JACQUELINE and my e-mail address is
                Jaedaduck@.... Thanks you guys
              • Gildor Inglorion
                teithant jaedaduck ... * the alnguages we work on are Quenya and Sindarin.. tengwar cursive is a writing style for writing those and many other languages.. so,
                Message 7 of 15 , May 16, 2002
                  teithant jaedaduck

                  > Hi! i'm planning to get a tatoo and i want it to be
                  > in tengwar
                  > cursive. I was wondering if anyone knew how to write
                  > my name in this
                  > language. If you do, i would appreciate it if u can
                  > e-mail me how it
                  > looks like. My name is JACQUELINE and my e-mail
                  > address is
                  > Jaedaduck@.... Thanks you guys

                  * the alnguages we work on are Quenya and Sindarin..
                  tengwar cursive is a writing style for writing those
                  and many other languages.. so, what do you mean bye "translation"?

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                • necromancer185
                  Hey I m new and I m justgetting into this whole...LOTR linguistics scene.....but personally I Think the ring is wonderfully poetic and a powerful bond of
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 18, 2002
                    Hey I'm new and I'm justgetting into this whole...LOTR linguistics
                    scene.....but personally I Think the ring is wonderfully poetic and a
                    powerful bond of love...Though the One Ring was bound to the bearer
                    in an all consumeing love that was overwhelming and could be brought
                    to the heights of great darkness...It was also responsible for the
                    shapeing of many great things in its path.....is not love a bitter
                    vice that stings the heart and tears the soul.....It is an evil all
                    consumeing power that can drive men mad....It is an obsession that
                    devoids men of pride and control....But in the path of it's
                    destruction lies the fruits of purity and grace....the warmth of
                    compassion and the bringing together of two people in an inseperable
                    bond....It is easy to mind only one view but to see as the Taoists do
                    the great duality of nature....One finds the roses amongst the thorns
                    and does not step away for fear of the prick....But embraces gently
                    the whole of the bush.......
                  • Harri Perälä
                    ... Perhaps there should be some kind of a checklist that would help people make more detailed requests? How about this: (HTML version:
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 19, 2002
                      Gildor Inglorion wrote:

                      > teithant jaedaduck
                      > > Hi! i'm planning to get a tatoo and i want it to be
                      > > in tengwar cursive. I was wondering if anyone knew how to write
                      > > my name in this language.
                      > [...] so, what do you mean bye "translation"?

                      Perhaps there should be some kind of a checklist that would help people
                      make more detailed requests?

                      How about this:

                      (HTML version: <http://www.sci.fi/%7ealboin/elfscript/minifaq.htm>)

                      -------------------------------------------------------------------
                      How do I write [phrase] in Elvish?

                      This question is ambiguous: there are several languages and several
                      writing systems that can be called "Elvish". List members can help you
                      better if you specify some of the following things:

                      What language?

                      Assuming your text is in English, would you like it to be translated
                      into one of the Elvish languages before writing it in Elvish letters?
                      Quenya and Sindarin are complete enough to make (some) translations
                      possible. However, bear in mind that detailed discussions about the
                      languages belong rather to Elfling.

                      What writing system?

                      You are probably thinking about the Tengwar (translated by Tolkien as
                      "letters"), though there are also the Cirth ("runes") and the Sarati
                      (the predecessor of the Tengwar). Examples of Tengwar in The Lord of the
                      Rings include the inscriptions on the One Ring and the West Gate of
                      Moria.

                      What mode?

                      The Tengwar writing system was adapted for many languages, and thus
                      there came to be several ways of writing in Tengwar. These are known as
                      modes. For some languages, only one mode is known; for others, there are
                      several choices. For a listing, see Tengwar Modes at Amanye Tenceli.

                      Modes fall into two main categories: the full writing modes, where
                      vowels have their own letters, and the tehta modes, where vowels are
                      represented by dots, curls and other small marks. If you prefer one of
                      these ways, let us know.

                      Transcriptions of English phrases are requested most frequently. Tolkien
                      experimented with several modes for writing English, sometimes using
                      traditional orthography as a basis, sometimes representing the actual
                      pronunciation more directly. Texts in both full writing and tehta modes
                      have been published. Different people are likely to have different
                      opinions on which of these modes to use (and the details of applying the
                      mode). In message 651 Daniel Andriës describes one of the possibilities,
                      the so-called "King's Letter" mode, and explains why he prefers it for
                      writing English.

                      What calligraphic style?

                      The Lord of the Rings contains a few examples of different styles of
                      Tengwar writing: the "flowing script" of the Ring inscription, the round
                      shapes in the writing on the Moria gate, and the "formal book-hand" in
                      Appendix E. Many settle for computer fonts for creating inscriptions,
                      though some find them a poor substitute for traditional calligraphy.
                      Note that calligraphic styles and fonts that represent them are
                      independent of language and mode.

                      Additional advice:

                      Here are some tips that have been given to people looking for help with
                      Elvish inscriptions:

                      In message 565, Brook Conner writes:

                      I'll just suggest to readers that at least making a try before posting a
                      question to the list is a good idea.... We obviously don't have much
                      problem here with students asking for homework answers, but it's nice to
                      see that someone has made an effort....

                      How to get started with learning the Tengwar? The Mellonath Daeron FAQ
                      suggests:

                      Begin with Appendix E of The Lord of the Rings. Then, analyze a couple
                      of Tolkien's tengwar samples. See the DTS (the Mellonath Daeron Tengwar
                      Specimina) for a list.

                      For online resources, see Elfling FAQ 1.8 ("Where can I get fonts for
                      Tolkien’s alphabets? How can I learn to write them?").
                      -------------------------------------------------------------------

                      Have you come up with better ways of explaining these concepts? Are
                      there factual errors in these explanations?

                      If someone feels like creating a real FAQ for the group some day, and
                      there is anything useful in the above, feel free to do whatever you like
                      with it.

                      --
                      Harri Perälä perala@... http://www.sci.fi/%7ealboin/
                    • Alf Gandson
                      ... represent ... But only if you don t count the tehtar as a calligaphic style. Well, I know they re more than calligraphic style, but at least for me, they
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 27, 2002
                        teithant Harri Perälä <harri.perala@...>:

                        >Note that calligraphic styles and fonts that
                        represent
                        >them are independent of language and mode.

                        But only if you don't count the tehtar as a
                        calligaphic style. Well, I know they're more than
                        calligraphic style, but at least for me, they are most
                        characteristic for the appearance -and thus also for
                        the calligraphics- of any tehtar-mode. I suppose that
                        people after their first contact with a (tehtar-mode)
                        tengwar sample (the LotR title page inscription or so)
                        will remember the tehtar, because they are most
                        unusual for eyes accustomed to latin letters.

                        Further on, I have been very surprised when I had
                        written some lines in a french mode which had no
                        additional tengwar but lambe (and rarely uure): It
                        looked very different from english tengwar samples.
                        (Perhaps the difference was in the lack of diagonals
                        as in roomen, the silme-tengwar or hyarmen.)

                        suilaid, alf

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                      • akasha66502
                        I m trying to translate my name into tengwar, but need to know if this is correct. These are the keystrokes for my name using the OTT 81iE~V Thanks Stacee
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jun 5, 2004
                          I'm trying to translate my name into tengwar, but need to know if this
                          is correct. These are the keystrokes for my name using the OTT
                          81iE~V

                          Thanks
                          Stacee
                        • i_degilbor
                          ... Transcribe, not translate . ... my name ... Personally, I would spell the ee in your name the same way that Tolkien spelt in on the LotR title page in
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jun 6, 2004
                            Teithant Stacee:
                            > I'm trying to translate my name into tengwar,

                            Transcribe, not 'translate'.

                            >but need to know if this is correct. These are the keystrokes for
                            my name
                            >using the OTT
                            > 81iE~V

                            Personally, I would spell the 'ee' in your name the same way that
                            Tolkien spelt in on the LotR title page in the word 'seen', so my
                            suggestion would be: 81iE`V`V

                            Cuio mae, Danny.
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