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Is this translation right?

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  • fedewan2002
    Gildor translated this. But he doesn t know if it s right. Someone help us. One ring to show our love, One ring to bind us, One ring to seal our love And
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 30, 2002
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      Gildor translated this. But he doesn't know if it's right.
      Someone help us.

      "One ring to show our love,
      One ring to bind us,
      One ring to seal our love
      And forever to entwine us."


      er-chorf thedad velleth viin
      er-chorf ven gwedhed
      er-chorf bronnad velleth viin
      ah an-uir ven gonathrad



      my most tentative reconstruction is verb *theda- < *the-ta- < THE >
      *the-ja- > thia- for "show", i would like some more oppinions on
      this :)
      (also i am not sure whether men is lenited before a gerund)
    • Danny Andriës
      ... I doubt that men would be lenited in this position; I don t see any reason for it. *theda: well, it s a good guess, and I don t know of any better
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 30, 2002
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        >From: "fedewan2002" <fedewan2002@...>
        >Reply-To: elfscript@yahoogroups.com
        >To: elfscript@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [elfscript] Is this translation right?
        >Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:10:42 -0000
        >
        >Gildor translated this. But he doesn't know if it's right.
        >Someone help us.
        >
        >"One ring to show our love,
        >One ring to bind us,
        >One ring to seal our love
        >And forever to entwine us."
        >
        >
        >er-chorf thedad velleth viin
        >er-chorf ven gwedhed
        >er-chorf bronnad velleth viin
        >ah an-uir ven gonathrad
        >
        >
        >
        >my most tentative reconstruction is verb *theda- < *the-ta- < THE >
        >*the-ja- > thia- for "show", i would like some more oppinions on
        >this :)
        >(also i am not sure whether men is lenited before a gerund)

        I doubt that 'men' would be lenited in this position; I don't see any reason
        for it. *theda: well, it's a good guess, and I don't know of any better
        suggestion.

        My problem with the whole thing is modeling a wedding ring after the One
        Ring. Why use a tool of evil, deceit and enslavement to serve as a model for
        a token of love and commitment? Seems pretty perverse!

        Just my opinion.

        Cuio mae, Danny.





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      • Gildor Inglorion
        teithant Danny Andriës ... for it. * nice to know that ... suggestion. * nice to know that too! ... Ring. Why use a tool of evil, deceit and enslavement to
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 30, 2002
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          teithant Danny Andriλs

          > I doubt that 'men' would be lenited in this position; I don't see any reason

          for it.

          * nice to know that

          > *theda: well, it's a good guess, and I don't know of any better

          suggestion.

          * nice to know that too!

          > My problem with the whole thing is modeling a wedding ring after the One

          Ring. Why use a tool of evil, deceit and enslavement to serve as a model for
          a token of love and commitment? Seems pretty perverse!

          *  'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwë, thy friend, whom thou lovest.'



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        • elee3533
          ... after the One ... as a model for ... I have gone under the gun, so to speak, about wanted to learn the writing of Quenya in the style of the ring script,
          Message 4 of 15 , May 1, 2002
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            > My problem with the whole thing is modeling a wedding ring
            after the One
            > Ring. Why use a tool of evil, deceit and enslavement to serve
            as a model for
            > a token of love and commitment? Seems pretty perverse!
            >
            > Just my opinion.
            >
            > Cuio mae, Danny.
            >
            >

            I have gone under the gun, so to speak, about wanted to learn
            the writing of Quenya in the style of the ring script, which is
            Sauron's handwriting, apparently. If one goes back to the
            Silmarillion and reads about Sauron's beginnings, we find he
            wasn't always an evil dude. Like any of us could be, he became.
            It's a beautiful script, simply. So if someone wanted to reclaim an
            object or a word or a person gone "bad" and turn it to good, why
            not? And a wedding ring that could make you invisible may come
            in quite handy one day!
          • Danny Andriës
            ... The handwriting on the One Ring itself is indeed Sauron s handwriting, but that doesn t mean that Sauron actually invented that particular style of
            Message 5 of 15 , May 1, 2002
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              Teithant Esther Lee:
              >I have gone under the gun, so to speak, about wanted to learn
              >the writing of Quenya in the style of the ring script, which is
              >Sauron's handwriting, apparently.

              The handwriting on the One Ring itself is indeed Sauron's handwriting, but
              that doesn't mean that Sauron actually invented that particular style of
              calligraphy. It could very well have been copied from a decorative script
              used by Elven scribes, maybe even F�anor himself. Who knows?

              >If one goes back to the
              >Silmarillion and reads about Sauron's beginnings, we find he
              >wasn't always an evil dude.

              At the time of the forging of the rings of power, he was indisputably evil.

              >It's a beautiful script, simply.

              It's a very beautiful script, no question. And I have used it for many
              tengwar calligraphy projects; it seems to be a favourite among those who ask
              me to design tengwar tattoos for them. I have no objections to the script
              itself. My objection is the combined imagery of a ring + the script + an
              inscription based on the ring inscription.

              >So if someone wanted to reclaim an
              >object or a word or a person gone "bad" and turn it to good, why
              >not?

              The One Ring was not an object 'gone "bad"'... it was bad at its inception.
              It was designed solely for an evil purpose. And it's clear in 'The Lord of
              the Rings' that the One Ring could not be used for good. The wearer
              inevitably becomes corrupted little by little.

              And a wedding ring that could make you invisible may come
              >in quite handy one day!

              And the cynical might well say that a symbol of domination and enslavement
              is a very apt image of a wedding ring!

              Cuio mae, Danny.

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            • fedewan2002
              Then Which is the correct translation. Can you write it for me? And about the ring: I won t write those words in the black speech, but in Quenya. And the most
              Message 6 of 15 , May 2, 2002
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                Then Which is the correct translation. Can you write it for me?

                And about the ring: I won't write those words in the black speech,
                but in Quenya.
                And the most important thing is: The book is called The Lord of the
                Rings. And everything revolves around the ring. And that doesn't make
                it perverse. Though I understand what you are saying. But take it
                mora as a symbol to us (my girlfriend and I). It's about LOTR. Not
                about the ring.
                If it makes you feel better :) She will give me Arwen's pendant. The
                one she gives to Aragorn in the movie.



                --- In elfscript@y..., "Danny Andriës" <tegilbor@h...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > >From: "fedewan2002" <fedewan2002@y...>
                > >Reply-To: elfscript@y...
                > >To: elfscript@y...
                > >Subject: [elfscript] Is this translation right?
                > >Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:10:42 -0000
                > >
                > >Gildor translated this. But he doesn't know if it's right.
                > >Someone help us.
                > >
                > >"One ring to show our love,
                > >One ring to bind us,
                > >One ring to seal our love
                > >And forever to entwine us."
                > >
                > >
                > >er-chorf thedad velleth viin
                > >er-chorf ven gwedhed
                > >er-chorf bronnad velleth viin
                > >ah an-uir ven gonathrad
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >my most tentative reconstruction is verb *theda- < *the-ta- < THE >
                > >*the-ja- > thia- for "show", i would like some more oppinions on
                > >this :)
                > >(also i am not sure whether men is lenited before a gerund)
                >
                > I doubt that 'men' would be lenited in this position; I don't see
                any reason
                > for it. *theda: well, it's a good guess, and I don't know of any
                better
                > suggestion.
                >
                > My problem with the whole thing is modeling a wedding ring after
                the One
                > Ring. Why use a tool of evil, deceit and enslavement to serve as a
                model for
                > a token of love and commitment? Seems pretty perverse!
                >
                > Just my opinion.
                >
                > Cuio mae, Danny.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > _________________________________________________________________
                > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
                > http://www.hotmail.com
              • Gildor Inglorion
                teithant fedewan2002 ... * what Danny says is correct, of course.. :) so you must replace ven with men ... but in Quenya. * but we translated it in Sindarin,
                Message 7 of 15 , May 2, 2002
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                  teithant fedewan2002

                  > Then Which is the correct translation. Can you write it for me?

                  * what Danny says is correct, of course.. :) so you must replace ven with men

                  > And about the ring: I won't write those words in the black speech,

                  but in Quenya.

                  * but we translated it in Sindarin, as you asked!



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                • fedewan2002
                  Jajaja You are right Gildor. I mean the elvish letters i will use are not the ones of the ring. Now that you told me that is Sindarin, I will use Sindarin
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 2, 2002
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                    Jajaja You are right Gildor.
                    I mean the elvish letters i will use are not the ones of the ring.
                    Now that you told me that is Sindarin, I will use Sindarin letters.

                    Trank You Gildor.



                    --- In elfscript@y..., Gildor Inglorion <elfiness@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > teithant fedewan2002
                    >
                    > > Then Which is the correct translation. Can you write it for me?
                    >
                    > * what Danny says is correct, of course.. :) so you must replace
                    ven with men
                    >
                    > > And about the ring: I won't write those words in the black
                    speech,
                    > but in Quenya.
                    >
                    > * but we translated it in Sindarin, as you asked!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
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                  • jaedaduck
                    Hi! i m planning to get a tatoo and i want it to be in tengwar cursive. I was wondering if anyone knew how to write my name in this language. If you do, i
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 16, 2002
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                      Hi! i'm planning to get a tatoo and i want it to be in tengwar
                      cursive. I was wondering if anyone knew how to write my name in this
                      language. If you do, i would appreciate it if u can e-mail me how it
                      looks like. My name is JACQUELINE and my e-mail address is
                      Jaedaduck@.... Thanks you guys
                    • Gildor Inglorion
                      teithant jaedaduck ... * the alnguages we work on are Quenya and Sindarin.. tengwar cursive is a writing style for writing those and many other languages.. so,
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 16, 2002
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                        teithant jaedaduck

                        > Hi! i'm planning to get a tatoo and i want it to be
                        > in tengwar
                        > cursive. I was wondering if anyone knew how to write
                        > my name in this
                        > language. If you do, i would appreciate it if u can
                        > e-mail me how it
                        > looks like. My name is JACQUELINE and my e-mail
                        > address is
                        > Jaedaduck@.... Thanks you guys

                        * the alnguages we work on are Quenya and Sindarin..
                        tengwar cursive is a writing style for writing those
                        and many other languages.. so, what do you mean bye "translation"?

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                      • necromancer185
                        Hey I m new and I m justgetting into this whole...LOTR linguistics scene.....but personally I Think the ring is wonderfully poetic and a powerful bond of
                        Message 11 of 15 , May 18, 2002
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                          Hey I'm new and I'm justgetting into this whole...LOTR linguistics
                          scene.....but personally I Think the ring is wonderfully poetic and a
                          powerful bond of love...Though the One Ring was bound to the bearer
                          in an all consumeing love that was overwhelming and could be brought
                          to the heights of great darkness...It was also responsible for the
                          shapeing of many great things in its path.....is not love a bitter
                          vice that stings the heart and tears the soul.....It is an evil all
                          consumeing power that can drive men mad....It is an obsession that
                          devoids men of pride and control....But in the path of it's
                          destruction lies the fruits of purity and grace....the warmth of
                          compassion and the bringing together of two people in an inseperable
                          bond....It is easy to mind only one view but to see as the Taoists do
                          the great duality of nature....One finds the roses amongst the thorns
                          and does not step away for fear of the prick....But embraces gently
                          the whole of the bush.......
                        • Harri Perälä
                          ... Perhaps there should be some kind of a checklist that would help people make more detailed requests? How about this: (HTML version:
                          Message 12 of 15 , May 19, 2002
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                            Gildor Inglorion wrote:

                            > teithant jaedaduck
                            > > Hi! i'm planning to get a tatoo and i want it to be
                            > > in tengwar cursive. I was wondering if anyone knew how to write
                            > > my name in this language.
                            > [...] so, what do you mean bye "translation"?

                            Perhaps there should be some kind of a checklist that would help people
                            make more detailed requests?

                            How about this:

                            (HTML version: <http://www.sci.fi/%7ealboin/elfscript/minifaq.htm>)

                            -------------------------------------------------------------------
                            How do I write [phrase] in Elvish?

                            This question is ambiguous: there are several languages and several
                            writing systems that can be called "Elvish". List members can help you
                            better if you specify some of the following things:

                            What language?

                            Assuming your text is in English, would you like it to be translated
                            into one of the Elvish languages before writing it in Elvish letters?
                            Quenya and Sindarin are complete enough to make (some) translations
                            possible. However, bear in mind that detailed discussions about the
                            languages belong rather to Elfling.

                            What writing system?

                            You are probably thinking about the Tengwar (translated by Tolkien as
                            "letters"), though there are also the Cirth ("runes") and the Sarati
                            (the predecessor of the Tengwar). Examples of Tengwar in The Lord of the
                            Rings include the inscriptions on the One Ring and the West Gate of
                            Moria.

                            What mode?

                            The Tengwar writing system was adapted for many languages, and thus
                            there came to be several ways of writing in Tengwar. These are known as
                            modes. For some languages, only one mode is known; for others, there are
                            several choices. For a listing, see Tengwar Modes at Amanye Tenceli.

                            Modes fall into two main categories: the full writing modes, where
                            vowels have their own letters, and the tehta modes, where vowels are
                            represented by dots, curls and other small marks. If you prefer one of
                            these ways, let us know.

                            Transcriptions of English phrases are requested most frequently. Tolkien
                            experimented with several modes for writing English, sometimes using
                            traditional orthography as a basis, sometimes representing the actual
                            pronunciation more directly. Texts in both full writing and tehta modes
                            have been published. Different people are likely to have different
                            opinions on which of these modes to use (and the details of applying the
                            mode). In message 651 Daniel Andriës describes one of the possibilities,
                            the so-called "King's Letter" mode, and explains why he prefers it for
                            writing English.

                            What calligraphic style?

                            The Lord of the Rings contains a few examples of different styles of
                            Tengwar writing: the "flowing script" of the Ring inscription, the round
                            shapes in the writing on the Moria gate, and the "formal book-hand" in
                            Appendix E. Many settle for computer fonts for creating inscriptions,
                            though some find them a poor substitute for traditional calligraphy.
                            Note that calligraphic styles and fonts that represent them are
                            independent of language and mode.

                            Additional advice:

                            Here are some tips that have been given to people looking for help with
                            Elvish inscriptions:

                            In message 565, Brook Conner writes:

                            I'll just suggest to readers that at least making a try before posting a
                            question to the list is a good idea.... We obviously don't have much
                            problem here with students asking for homework answers, but it's nice to
                            see that someone has made an effort....

                            How to get started with learning the Tengwar? The Mellonath Daeron FAQ
                            suggests:

                            Begin with Appendix E of The Lord of the Rings. Then, analyze a couple
                            of Tolkien's tengwar samples. See the DTS (the Mellonath Daeron Tengwar
                            Specimina) for a list.

                            For online resources, see Elfling FAQ 1.8 ("Where can I get fonts for
                            Tolkien’s alphabets? How can I learn to write them?").
                            -------------------------------------------------------------------

                            Have you come up with better ways of explaining these concepts? Are
                            there factual errors in these explanations?

                            If someone feels like creating a real FAQ for the group some day, and
                            there is anything useful in the above, feel free to do whatever you like
                            with it.

                            --
                            Harri Perälä perala@... http://www.sci.fi/%7ealboin/
                          • Alf Gandson
                            ... represent ... But only if you don t count the tehtar as a calligaphic style. Well, I know they re more than calligraphic style, but at least for me, they
                            Message 13 of 15 , May 27, 2002
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                              teithant Harri Perälä <harri.perala@...>:

                              >Note that calligraphic styles and fonts that
                              represent
                              >them are independent of language and mode.

                              But only if you don't count the tehtar as a
                              calligaphic style. Well, I know they're more than
                              calligraphic style, but at least for me, they are most
                              characteristic for the appearance -and thus also for
                              the calligraphics- of any tehtar-mode. I suppose that
                              people after their first contact with a (tehtar-mode)
                              tengwar sample (the LotR title page inscription or so)
                              will remember the tehtar, because they are most
                              unusual for eyes accustomed to latin letters.

                              Further on, I have been very surprised when I had
                              written some lines in a french mode which had no
                              additional tengwar but lambe (and rarely uure): It
                              looked very different from english tengwar samples.
                              (Perhaps the difference was in the lack of diagonals
                              as in roomen, the silme-tengwar or hyarmen.)

                              suilaid, alf

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                            • akasha66502
                              I m trying to translate my name into tengwar, but need to know if this is correct. These are the keystrokes for my name using the OTT 81iE~V Thanks Stacee
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jun 5, 2004
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                                I'm trying to translate my name into tengwar, but need to know if this
                                is correct. These are the keystrokes for my name using the OTT
                                81iE~V

                                Thanks
                                Stacee
                              • i_degilbor
                                ... Transcribe, not translate . ... my name ... Personally, I would spell the ee in your name the same way that Tolkien spelt in on the LotR title page in
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jun 6, 2004
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                                  Teithant Stacee:
                                  > I'm trying to translate my name into tengwar,

                                  Transcribe, not 'translate'.

                                  >but need to know if this is correct. These are the keystrokes for
                                  my name
                                  >using the OTT
                                  > 81iE~V

                                  Personally, I would spell the 'ee' in your name the same way that
                                  Tolkien spelt in on the LotR title page in the word 'seen', so my
                                  suggestion would be: 81iE`V`V

                                  Cuio mae, Danny.
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