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Re: [elfscript] Re: Some tengwar modes

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  • Harri Perälä
    ... I can t think of any features of Finnish that would make particularly well suited for the tengwar, though. The Feanorian system as a whole was meant to be
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 6, 2002
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      Abrigon wrote:

      > Wasn't it Quenya that was based on ideas of Finnish.
      > And since Tengwar was originally designed by Feanor who was a Noldor
      > and spoke Quenya. It fits that Finnish likely would be best used by
      > Tengwar.

      I can't think of any features of Finnish that would make particularly
      well suited for the tengwar, though. The Feanorian system as a whole was
      meant to be generic, and the special features of the classical Quenya
      mode do not seem to be easily applicable to Finnish.

      Firstly, the number of possible consonant clusters in modern Finnish is
      larger than in Quenya, so not very many of them can be given their own
      tengwar. As a side effect of this, Quenya style a-omission (as explained
      in <http://www.elvish.org/elm/spelling.html>) would probably not be
      practical in any Finnish tehta mode.

      I would also assume that Feanor was not familiar with any language that
      had over 15 diphthongs. As Kassandra Velez has demonstrated, it is quite
      possible to design a Finnish mode where diphthongs are spelled
      differently from disyllabic vowel combinations, but the system is not
      being very helpful.

      On the other hand, writing Finnish phonemically in tengwar is certainly
      not difficult, either. Some languages must be much more problematic.
      Unfortunately, my knowledge of foreign languages and tengwar modes is
      not enough for very many comparisons. What do others think? Is the
      system of the tengwar somehow optimized for "Quenya-like" languages?

      --
      Harri Perälä perala@... http://www.sci.fi/%7ealboin/
    • gildir_1
      ... _i_ and ... I use that scheme in my suggestion for a swedish mode on http://www.forodrim.org/daeron/md_teng_primers.html . A doubled (five-dot) A-tehta for
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 8, 2002
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        --- In elfscript@y..., Måns Björkman <mansb@h...> wrote:

        > It might interest you that I nowadays write _å_ and _ö_ a little
        > differently. A friend pointed out that since one dot is used for
        _i_ and
        > two dots represent _y_, doubling a vowel sign could represent
        > lip-rounding.

        I use that scheme in my suggestion for a swedish mode on
        http://www.forodrim.org/daeron/md_teng_primers.html .

        A doubled (five-dot) A-tehta for Å is perhaps not so pretty,
        and so the 'backwards twist'-tehta has been suggested as a
        replacement. It's not too weird, since it is used for
        'following w' in sindarin modes, and has a similar use in
        english modes (e.g. DTS 16-18). But I'm still not convinced...


        Suilaid,
        Gildir, Per Lindberg
      • BP Jonsson
        ... I have uploaded my own attempt at a solution for Swedish and Finnish to Comments and criticism are welcome! /BP 8^)
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 9, 2002
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          At 13:00 2002-04-08 +0000, gildir_1 wrote:

          >A doubled (five-dot) A-tehta for Å is perhaps not so pretty,
          >and so the 'backwards twist'-tehta has been suggested as a
          >replacement. It's not too weird, since it is used for
          >'following w' in sindarin modes, and has a similar use in
          >english modes (e.g. DTS 16-18). But I'm still not convinced...

          I have uploaded my own attempt at a solution for Swedish and Finnish to
          <http://www.melroch.net/tengwar.html>

          Comments and criticism are welcome!



          /BP 8^)>
          --
          B.Philip Jonsson mailto:melrochX@... (delete X)
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~__
          A h-ammen ledin i phith! \ \
          __ ____ ____ _____________ ____ __ __ __ / /
          \ \/___ \\__ \ /___ _____/\ \\__ \\ \ \ \\ \ / /
          / / / / / \ / /Melroch\ \_/ // / / // / / /
          / /___/ /_ / /\ \ / /Melarokko\_ // /__/ // /__/ /
          /_________//_/ \_\/ /Eowine __ / / \___/\_\\___/\_\
          Gwaedhvenn Angeliniel\ \______/ /a/ /_h-adar Merthol naun
          ~~~~~~~~~Kuinondil~~~\________/~~\__/~~~Noolendur~~~~~~
          || Lenda lenda pellalenda pellatellenda kuivie aiya! ||
          "A coincidence, as we say in Middle-Earth" (JRR Tolkien)
        • BP Jonsson
          ... Oops! A small but significant error persisted from an earlier version of the Finnish mode. I just uploaded a corrected version. /BP 8^) -- B.Philip
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 9, 2002
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            At 17:05 2002-04-09 +0200, I wrote:

            >At 13:00 2002-04-08 +0000, gildir_1 wrote:
            >
            > >A doubled (five-dot) A-tehta for Å is perhaps not so pretty,
            > >and so the 'backwards twist'-tehta has been suggested as a
            > >replacement. It's not too weird, since it is used for
            > >'following w' in sindarin modes, and has a similar use in
            > >english modes (e.g. DTS 16-18). But I'm still not convinced...
            >
            >I have uploaded my own attempt at a solution for Swedish and Finnish to
            ><http://www.melroch.net/tengwar.html>
            >
            >Comments and criticism are welcome!

            Oops! A small but significant error persisted from an earlier version of
            the Finnish mode. I just uploaded a corrected version.

            /BP 8^)>
            --
            B.Philip Jonsson mailto:melrochX@... (delete X)
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~__
            A h-ammen ledin i phith! \ \
            __ ____ ____ _____________ ____ __ __ __ / /
            \ \/___ \\__ \ /___ _____/\ \\__ \\ \ \ \\ \ / /
            / / / / / \ / /Melroch\ \_/ // / / // / / /
            / /___/ /_ / /\ \ / /Melarokko\_ // /__/ // /__/ /
            /_________//_/ \_\/ /Eowine __ / / \___/\_\\___/\_\
            Gwaedhvenn Angeliniel\ \______/ /a/ /_h-adar Merthol naun
            ~~~~~~~~~Kuinondil~~~\________/~~\__/~~~Noolendur~~~~~~
            || Lenda lenda pellalenda pellatellenda kuivie aiya! ||
            "A coincidence, as we say in Middle-Earth" (JRR Tolkien)
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