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hello! (oh no, yes, its another newbie ;)

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  • Jennifer Pattinson
    Hello Everyone! As you can guess I m new to this group. I ve been a huge fan of LotR for years, but did not realise how much there was on the web about it.
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 6 1:09 AM
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      Hello Everyone!

      As you can guess I'm new to this group. I've been a huge fan of LotR for
      years, but did not realise how much there was on the web about it. I'm
      trying to learn Tengwar, so that I can write English, and am having a little
      trouble, and would appreciate any help I could get. I realise that
      consonants are transcribed phonetically, but I'm confused about the vowels.
      Do we go with spelling? Or do we try to go by sound? (Ex. cough = ou, or a?)

      Second Question: When you have something like my name, Jennifer, what do you
      do with the double n? I realise you put the tilde underneath the n, but can
      you still put the �matehtar for i over the n's, or do you put it on a
      carrier so that only one tehtar is on each tengwar.

      Last Question: (for now I hope) I realise that a curl is added to represent
      a plural sound at the end of a word, but is that the only time you use it?

      Thank you so much for your help
      Jennifer

      I've also gotten my information from:
      http://hem.passagen.se/mansb/at/tengwar.htm
      I hope this is accurate. ;)


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    • Gildor Inglorion
      teithant Jennifer Pattinson ... consonants are transcribed phonetically, but I m confused about the vowels. Do we go with spelling? Or do we try to go by
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 6 2:01 AM
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        teithant Jennifer Pattinson

        > trouble, and would appreciate any help I could get. I realise that

        consonants are transcribed phonetically, but I'm confused about the vowels.
        Do we go with spelling? Or do we try to go by sound? (Ex. cough = ou, or a?)

        * both! i advice that you download dan smith's fonts.. they are accompanied with brief documentation about their usage, but also include examples about the published english inscription of JRRT and his son (for example, the LOTR, Silm, UT, HoMe title pages)

        also if you have HoME 9, you can study the kings letter where another full mode is attested

        > Second Question: When you have something like my name, Jennifer, what do you

        do with the double n? I realise you put the tilde underneath the n, but can
        you still put the σmatehtar for i over the n's, or do you put it on a
        carrier so that only one tehtar is on each tengwar.

        * ???? well yes you put tht tilde underneath n, but i dont understand what that has to do with oomatehta for i over the n's etc..

        btw tehe singular is tengwa and tehta.. tengwar and tehtas are plural forms

        > Last Question: (for now I hope) I realise that a curl is added to represent

        a plural sound at the end of a word, but is that the only time you use it?

        * i guess you are referring to the following s hook.. well you use it when a word has a final consonant... if you write 'hobbit' you add that hook and becomes plural! (well, you add the -s)



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      • DDanielA@webtv.net
        Teithant Jennifer: vowels ... do we go with spel- ling? Or do we try to go by sound? That s a tricky one. If we follow the mode used on the title page of
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 6 7:07 PM
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          Teithant Jennifer:
          vowels ... do we go with spel-
          ling? Or do we try to go by
          sound?

          That's a tricky one. If we follow the 'mode' used on the title page of
          LotR, JRRT 'generally' follows traditionally spelling. If we use the
          full writing mode used for English in the King's Letter ("Sauron
          Defeated", pp. 130 - 131), pronunciation is virtually irrelevant;
          spelling of vowels follows traditional English spelling. (One exception:
          Silent 'e' or the 'schwa' represented bt 'e' is spelt with the under-dot
          rather than with 'yanta'. I prefer this mode; it's easier to read.)

          Jennifer ... can you still put the
          ómatehtar for i over the n's ...?

          Why would you want to? If you want to use a tehta mode, the 'e' tehta
          would be placed over the double 'n' ... not the 'i' ... unless you're
          trying to use a mode that utilises Quenya style vowel placement. Anyway,
          this is the way to write 'Jennifer' in the tehta mode used on the LotR
          title page:
          anga - númen (with 'double bar' {tilde} below it, and 'e' tehta {acute
          accent} above it) - formen (with 'i' tehta {single dot} above it, a
          quiescent 'e' {single dot} below it) - óre.

          curl ... plural sound at the end of
          a word, but is that the only time
          you use it?

          Not at all. Use it whenever an 's' immediately follows another
          consonant. And 'x' should be written as 'quesse' with the 's' curl
          attached. In this case, the curl is attached to the left of the 'quesse'
          because the bow of 'quesse' is on the left.

          Cuio mae, Danny.
        • Jennifer Pattinson
          Thank you for your help. I am starting to realise that learning to write English in Tengwar is going to be a bit harder than I had first thought. I m at the
          Message 4 of 4 , Feb 10 6:04 PM
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            Thank you for your help.

            I am starting to realise that learning to write English in Tengwar is going
            to be a bit harder than I had first thought. I'm at the point where I can
            write messages back and forth between my friends, (handwritten, not
            computer) and we can understand each other, but we have not standardised our
            spellings yet. Wow, and I just realised I was making a huge mistake. ;) I
            used to place the tehtar on the wrong tengwar (so, in a word like ate, i
            would have a-te, instead of at-e). Well, now it makes more sense . Anyways,
            I'm happy to be here on this list; it seems like people have put a lot of
            research into Tolkien's languages and scripts. I have only finished my
            first year of linguistics, and am thrilled to use my little bit of knowledge
            (like the IPA) to learn something I've always thought was interesting.

            Jennifer

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