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Re: Return of the ElfScribes

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  • Dan Smith
    Hello fellow ElfScribes, Like many, I like to lurk in the shadows and just listen to the conversations in the list. I just thought that new people might be
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 17, 2000
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      Hello fellow ElfScribes,

      Like many, I like to lurk in the shadows and just listen to
      the conversations in the list. I just thought that new people
      might be interested in my WWW site, devoted to fonts based on
      Tolkien's invented alphabets:
      "http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/4948/index.html"

      Also, I whole-heartedly recommend Måns Björkman's WWW site,
      which has extensive info on Tolkien-inspired calligraphy.
      "http://user.tninet.se/~xof995c"

      Lastly, many thanks to Lisa Star for keeping me on her Tyalie
      Tyelellieva mailing list.


      --
      Daniel Steven Smith / fontmaster@...
      Fantasy Fonts for Windows / <><
      http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/4948/
    • Lisa Star
      ... **My turn to apologize, perhaps I made a hasty assumption. ... **We have communicated in the past about the alphabet samples on my webpage. ... **In my
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 18, 2000
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        >Mans Bjorkman <mansb@...>

        >Lisa Star wrote:
        >
        > > >Mans Bjorkman <mansb@...> wrote:

        >I apologize for causing this misunderstanding. I meant nothing of the
        >kind! My intention was merely to point out that one can view Tolkien's
        >material in many different ways (not just two, as you rightly point
        >out).

        **My turn to apologize, perhaps I made a hasty assumption.

        >Obviously. I have never investigated the views held by all my fellow
        >Tolkienites (not even the ones I know of).

        **We have communicated in the past about the alphabet samples on my webpage.

        >I agree with you that 1) Tolkien's understanding of the texts grew as he
        >studied them, and 2) the earlier material should not be discarded. I do
        >*not* agree the Etymologies and the "Appendix on Runes", as they stand,
        >are more reliable sources on the First Age than later writings,
        >specifically _The Lord of the Rings_!

        **In my view, it makes sense to say that they are, partly because the forms
        of the names change, and Tolkien often retains an earlier form in a later
        text--or Christopher Tolkien has. In what language is the word Neldoreth,
        which I believe still appears as a name of a forest of Doriath as the name
        is given in the Lord of the Rings? There are other issues like that, but
        that might not be on topic if we are only supposed to be discussing
        alphabets on this list.

        **I think I will pursue this by producing some samples and putting them up
        on my webpage. That will take a little while, but since I have just
        finished a study of the grammar of Qenya (of the Lexicons), I have a lot of
        material to work with.

        >So your view is that there are several equally correct conceptions of
        >Middle-earth -- divided, perhaps, by the changes that Tolkien made over
        >time?

        **Divided by the different viewpoints in the different sources that he was
        using, that is, some manuscripts might have been produced by the Sindar,
        some by Mortals and some by Hobbits. Some might have better texts, others
        have copying errors. Perhaps none of them are perfectly accurate or even
        complete. You study the linguistics also, don't you? Do you realize how
        complex it is? I'm not being rude in asking that, I just wondered if you
        had considered it, or if you had, had you dismissed the complexities?

        >So that in one conception there are "Ilkorin" elves that use the
        >"Runes of Beleriand" of AR, in another there are Sindar who use the
        >Certhas Daeron as described in LR? I think this, in essence, summarizes
        >the view I so bluntly ascribed to you.

        **No, some *manuscripts* were written in Ilkorin in a cirth hand, others are
        later copies made by Noldorin elves in 3rd Age Sindarin and written with the
        tengwar. Tolkien is "translating" manuscripts and hence viewpoints of many
        different people.

        >I agree there is no single perfect conception of Arda -- after all,
        >Tolkien's sources were written during a period of several thousand years
        >-- but I believe the later discoveries of the Author to be usually more
        >accurate than the earlier, thereby superceding them. Sometimes there is
        >indeed a choice between two late contradictory sources, but never
        >between one late source and one early. And there's my view in a
        >nutshell.

        **I think you should look more carefully at this. In the latest sources
        Tolkien rejected the entire cosmology of the Silmarillion including the
        making of the Sun and Moon from the fruit and flower of the Two Trees. Do
        you really want to reject all that? I certainly would not. Just to be
        clear, I'm not objecting to it if you do, but I certainly would not.

        > > **Of course, I give you permission to do whatever you like, too :-)
        >
        >Thank you. I hope, then, that I have not insulted you beyond redemption.

        **No, you've made me laugh--always a welcome and healthy experience!

        ** Lisa Star
        ** LisaStar@...
        ** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/9902

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      • Angasule
        ... Yes, it s that book (just got back from the bookstore), but in Spanish the title is somewhat different (can t recall it now, I checked for the english name
        Message 3 of 4 , Sep 27, 2000
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          > I assume it was _Pictures by J.R.R. Tolkien_ you looked in? If so, you
          > really should get hold of it, since it is no longer in print! (_Artist
          > and Illustrator_ only contains one of the pages, and a sketch of
          > another.)
          Yes, it's that book (just got back from the bookstore), but in Spanish
          the title is somewhat different (can't recall it now, I checked for the
          english name only), here it's widely available (unlike *many* other
          books, specially the latest from HoME), and I don't think it's out of
          print (again, this is the spanish edition) or if it is then they sure
          did print lots of them, it's about the fourth easiest to get book by
          Tolkien (LotR, TH, Silm, Pictures), I think. It's $50 (argentinian
          pesos, change is 1:1 to US dollars), if anyone is interested enough in
          this book maybe we could arrange something (if someone knows how to send
          money, I sure don't know anything about banks and all that, my personal
          treasury at this moment is $10 lol I can just pay for the taxi to the
          bank!), but I'm sure it's easy to find in any Spanish speaking country.
          I'm buying it next month when I get the money :)
          Angasule
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