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Re: [elfscript] Re: How to write Sindarin and Quenya in Cirth?

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  • Melroch 'Aestan
    ... Yes probably. In the Book of Mazarbul facsimile there are a number of extra cirth for English vowel digraphs, but I wouldn t venture into using them for
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 28, 2006
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      i_aran_elenion skrev:
      > Thanks, Melroch. A few questions. So. The diphthongs. They
      > are written as in they are written in alphabet,
      > seperately, unlike in tengwar mode in which they use
      > distinct letters?

      Yes probably. In the Book of Mazarbul facsimile there are a
      number of extra cirth for English vowel digraphs, but I
      wouldn't venture into using them for Sindarin or Quenya
      vowels, but just write _ae_ {48-46}, _ai_ {48-39} _au_ {48-
      42} and so on.

      > And what do the dots beneath the cirth,33
      > symbolize? Are they part of the cirth?

      No, they are not part of the cirth, but serve to subdivide
      the table into groups similar to the columns and the
      horizontal line in the Tengwar table. This is an old source
      of confusion; apparently this isn't as obvious as Tolkien
      thought if you don't know phonetics.

      > (Crith 38 and 52 particularly adds my confusion, in which
      > two cirths seem to exist for one value)

      Yes, they are just variants of a single certh, although in
      the Book of Mazarbul facsimile the two variants of certh #38
      are used for _ou_ and _nj_ respectively for writing English.

      BTW, some points of (Sindarin) terminology:

      + _certh_ = 'rune' (singular)
      + _cirth_ = 'runes' (plural)
      + _certhas_ = 'rune-alphabet'
      + _angerthas_ = 'long rune-alphabet'

      This is a Frequently Encountered Misunderstanding due to the
      rather different way English and Sindarin form plurals!

      You mentioned in your answer to elfiness that:
      > As for no.45. I never imagined it would be used for the
      > vowel 'y' because it had a u with diaresis.

      The German _Umlaut_ and the Greek-derived _diaeresis_
      unfortunately look the same -- two dots above -- in modern
      fonts, but they are different in origin:

      1. the diaeresis was always two dots, and is used to
      indicate that two consecutive vowel letters are to be
      pronounced separately, or (as in Tolkien's Roman spelling
      of Quenya) that a vowel which should normally be silent
      according to English reading rules should be pronounced.

      2. the umlaut (which literally means 'sound shift') was
      originally a tiny _e_ written atop a back vowel _a, o_ or
      _u_ to indicate that it should be pronounced as a front
      vowel. These sounds don't exist in modern English, and
      neither did they in Westron, where Sindarin _y_ was
      pronounced the same as _i_. I don't know why German
      printers started to use a diaeresis as umlaut -- perhaps
      because they used French-produced lead type where the
      proper signs were missing. Anyway the use of the double
      dot to indicate a change in pronunciation is found in
      several European languages beside German, and got adopted
      from there by 19th century historical linguists. Tolkien
      of course was a spiritual descendant of them, and was
      seemingly untroubled about using the double dot above for
      two different purposes.


      /BP 8^)>
      Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
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