Re: Attempted tranlation of Kingswood
- --- In email@example.com, "j_mach_wust" <j_mach_wust@...>
> arantauri wrote:
> > You might have seen the new file I've added and this is the
> > have for my tattoo. The word i am trying to translateis 'Kingswood'.
> > I translated it into Quenya as 'arantauri' (aran - king, tauri -is 'arandor'.
> > greatwood / forest) as the translation of 'kingsland'
> > And then tranlated the quenya into tengwar.language
> > The two small characters before are (hopefully) 'V' and 'E' for
> > Veon and Eruwen.
> It's helpful to distinguish between 'translation' (from one
> to another) and 'transcription' (from one writing system toanother).
> Your first step was to translate from English to Quenya, yoursecond
> step was to transcribe from the Latin alphabet to the tengwarscript.
> I am not qualified to comment on your translation, since I don'tknow
> enough of Quenya. I can only comment on your transcription. If youyou
> search for more comments on your translation, then I'd recommend
> to go to the group elfling:translation
> Now to comment on your transcription (supposing that your
> 'arantauri' is all right):the
> That's well done! The only thing you need to correct is not to put
> first a-sign on a long carrier, but on a short carrier. As it isnow,
> it'd be read 'Ã¡rantauri'. Then, you should abbreviate the 'n':Instead
> of writing it with its own letter (nÃºmen), you better express itby a
> bar put above the following t-letter (tinco). This is consistentlyan
> found in Tolkien's own samples.
> You might choose to write the 'au' not by an a-sign first and then
> u-sign on a short carrier, but with an a-sign above the letter Ãºreletter to
> (which looks like the Latin small letter 'o'). That's right, the
> a-sign wouldn't be on the preceding t-letter tinco, but on the
> following letter. That's because the letter Ãºre is a special
> invert the normal reading direction in order to more comfortablythe
> express sounds like 'au eu ou iu'. This is often found in Tolkien's
> samples, but not always, so your proposal is fine as well.
> You also might want to use the 'classical' Quenya orthography, not
> 'general use' orthography as in your proposal. In that case, you'dfor
> express the whole group of 'nt' by the single letter anto.
> Additionally, the 'classical' Quenya orthography uses letter Ãºre
> 'v', not the letter ampa. Tolkien has used both the 'classical'The
> orthography and the 'general use' for the transcription of Quenya.
> 'general use' may be more typical for humans, while the 'classical'for
> orthography may be the original Elven usage (I think we don't know
> Well, this has become rather lengthy. It's not easy to properly
> explain the different options. Please ask if you have (not)
> anything at all...Thank you very much for your comments, all of which are very
> j. 'mach' wust
helpfull and I'm happy to say that i understand them (after a little
thought). I did mention i am a novice linguist but i should not have
made simple mistakes like 'translation' and 'transcription'!!
I had susspected that i should have used a short carrier for the
first 'A', thanks for putting me straight. The reason i did that was
i suspected it might have also changed the sound of the 'A' for our
english version of a capital, silly mistake no. 2!
As for not using the clasical version of the tengwar i was trying
to keep things simple for me but i was tempted by the letter 'anto'.
Do u know which was the original mode that Féonor was said to have
Thanks again for your help with the transciption, all i need is to
check the translation into Quenya (which i hope is more accurate)and
i can go ahead. I have been designing this for a long time and i
dont't want to get some random gibberish on my arm!
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "j_mach_wust" <j_mach_wust@...> wrote:
> Additionally, the 'classical' Quenya orthography uses letter Ãºre forHm. Doesn't the "classical" Quenya mode employ vala or vilya (w > v)
> 'v', not the letter ampa.
for "v" (i.e. the sound usually expressed by ampa in English or
Sindarin modes)? And reserve Ãºre for "u/w" diphthongs?
- Hisilome wrote:
> > Additionally, the 'classical' Quenya orthography uses letter Ãºre..
> > for'v', not the letter ampa.
> Hm. Doesn't the "classical" Quenya mode employ vala or vilya (w > v)
> for "v" (i.e. the sound usually expressed by ampa in English or
> Sindarin modes)? And reserve Ãºre for "u/w" diphthongs?
Certainly! Thanks for the correction, I'm very sorry I have confused
the letter names.
The question whether to use vala or vilya depends on etymology.
However, Tolkien may have used vala as default letter for any 'v' in
the 'classical' Quenya orthography, just as he used silme for any 's',
even though he claimed that the transcription of 's' also depended on
> Do u know which was the original mode that FÃ©anor was said to have...
As far as I know, this is not known.
j. 'mach' wust
Sorry for chiming in late in the discussion. Since I "know somewhat of
the Valinorean", as the healers of Minas Tirith would say, I might
comment on the Quenya translation. Essentially it is correct, but
_tauri_ means "woods", in plural. The singular form "wood" is _taure_.
As regards the transcription to Tengwar I can add little to what has
already been said, except that in the classical mode _nt_ would
perhaps in this case *not* be written with <anto> - since the _n_ and
_t_ originally belong to different words: _aran-taure_.
- --- In email@example.com, Måns Björkman <mansb@...> wrote:
> _tauri_ means "woods", in plural. The singular form "wood" is
>>Thanks very much guys for your insight... I'm glad you 'Know somewhat
of the valinorean' more than me!
I'm glad you corrected me to arantaure, thankfully my transcription
into tengwar can be easily ammended by changing the final vowel-mark-
if i assume correctly?!
May i also give special thanks to Mans Bjórkman for his
webpage 'Amanye Tenceli' as it was and incredible help to me and my
I think I'm going to go ahead with the ammended tattoo, and i will
post a photo of the final result if you're interested!