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Re: Chinese (Mandarin) Mode: No "-io", but "-io-"

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  • hisilome
    ... sure ... seems ... that ... are ... prefer, ... since if ...
    Message 1 of 33 , Feb 20, 2006
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      --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Melroch 'Aestan <melroch@...> wrote:
      >
      > j_mach_wust skrev:
      > > Hisilome wrote:
      > > ...
      > >
      > >>To sum up, while for "xiong, qiong, jiong" I'd say it is clearly
      > >>the "o" that should be spelled with a tehta, I'm not quite so
      sure
      > >>about emphasizing the first element in "iu, ui" anymore. There
      seems
      > >>to be no neat solution here, therefore I after all tend to feel
      that
      > >>both spellings,
      > >>
      > >>(-iu): Tengwa + I-tehta on top of uure
      > >> OR double dot under tengwa and U-tehta on top of it
      > >>
      > >>(-ui): Tengwa + U-tehta on top of yanta
      > >> OR modified left-curl and I-tehta on top of tengwa
      > >>
      > >>are plausible, and should thus both be considered correct (they
      are
      > >>definitely both comprehensible--no matter which solution you
      prefer,
      > >>there would be no ambiguity).
      > >
      > > ...
      > >
      > > Well yes, there would be, at least in the case of Pinyin -iu,
      since if
      > > you analyze Pinyin -iu as if it were -yu (with the second element
      > > being more prominent)
      >
      > IIRC Pinyin _-iu_ and _-ui_ are "shorthand spellings"
      > for _-iou_ and _-uei_. Surely this should be reflected
      > in Tengwar spelling.


      <<<<<You do recall correctly. And that is also reflected in the
      Mandarin Phonetic Symbol (zhuyin or bopomofo) system, where _iu_ is a
      combination of a sign for _i_ and another for _ou_, and _ui_ is
      correspondingly transcribed with _u + ei_.

      But in orthographic spelling, this would hardly matter: if the sounds
      are transcribed as _iu, ui_ in Pinyin, and we base our tengwar mode
      on Pinyin (as we did), I'd say there is nothing wrong with spelling
      these sounds _i + u_ and _u + i_.

      In a phonetic mode, however, one should of course strive to reflect
      pronunciation as accurately as possible, regardless of the
      spelling.>>>

      Hisilome
    • Melroch 'Aestan
      ... Mandarin was a typo for Cantonese here. Sorry. -- /BP 8^) -- Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
      Message 33 of 33 , Mar 19, 2006
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        hisilome skrev:

        >
        >>Duh, with six or seven tonemes Mandarin even stretches Roman to
        >>its limits!
        >
        >
        > [ Well, I'm no experts on linguistics (obviously!), so I may
        > misunderstand you here--but if "tonemes" are identical to tones,
        > standard Mandarin has four or five, and as far as I know some
        > subdialects of Mandarin have as little as three. Why six or seven? ]

        "Mandarin" was a typo for "Cantonese" here. Sorry.
        --

        /BP 8^)>
        --
        Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
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