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Re: help required with another tattoo!!!

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  • calwen76
    ... No, the first one is not transcribed correctly, unlike the latter one. I ll try to draw a difference between those two by English: The first one reads: I
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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      --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001"
      <worldofbob2001@y...> wrote:
      >> `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{6R
      >> and
      >> `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2È{ w`V `C
      >> rzG1t% 5`N jx^{È6
      >
      > Are both these transcriptions basically correct for the text?

      No, the first one is not transcribed correctly, unlike the latter one.

      I'll try to draw a difference between those two by English:

      The first one reads: "I will rize up above the flames and be a victim
      no longair." (it is not literally so with the word "longair" but
      approximately designed for this purpose of distinction), and the
      second one reads: "I will rise up above the flames and be a victim no
      longer." So, I think there is no hard decision to make...

      Lucy

      One more thing: the transcriber makes obvious mistakes that we who
      are more familiar with Tengwar can quite easily find and since we are
      using our brain cells (:]) we are able to deduce what is the
      transcription supposed to say... so it is not like that the
      transcriber didn't do many errors, rather on the contrary.
    • Stephane Morrell
      That’s great. I will definitely check into that group and report back here for proper transcriptions if the sentence should be different. I wouldn’t have
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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        That’s great. I will definitely check into that group and report back here
        for proper transcriptions if the sentence should be different. I wouldn’t
        have it any other way as you guys seem to really be knowledgeable when it
        comes to Tengwar.



        I’m sorry if I came off a bit rude before about the non-response, it wasn’t
        my intention. I can completely understand the faster response to the easier
        question ( heck, I end up doing this in my day-to-day work ).



        Thanks again for the codes! I checked them against my original transcription
        that I obtained from the transcriber and the last one I had (using Quenya
        mode ) did indeed match ( what a relief :-) ) …



        _____

        From: elfscript@yahoogroups.com [mailto:elfscript@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of calwen76
        Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 5:00 AM
        To: elfscript@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [elfscript] Re: help required with another tattoo!!!



        --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "balroghead" wrote:

        > I also decided to have it in Quenya written in Tengwar.

        That's the reason why you haven't yet received your answer. Since
        Robert wants just a transcription because he's used an English
        sentence, it was much easier and "quicker" to answer him first. This
        group concerns writing systems, many of its members have no (or very
        small) knowledge of Professor's languages (I myself have a very
        little knowledge of Quenya). That's why I'm actually not able to help
        back concerning the Quenya (translation from English -> Quenya) and
        that means that the transcription itself might be in principle
        incorrect in case the translation is incorrect. Do you get my
        point? :)

        > I *think* I have it right when I say :
        > i rína ar morna quén
        > or
        > i rína morna quén ( without the "THE" ).

        Well, I'm not much familiar with Quenya but I still can see the
        definite article THE in the lattest sentence (_i_) but it lacks the
        conjuction AND (_ar_). It may be just a slip from your part, huh? :)
        On the other hand, Tolkien gives us _Moriquendi_ as 'The Dark Elves',
        literally 'The Dark Ones' and if one supposes to make a singular of
        this, which would in English yield 'The Dark One', it would BMVHO be
        *_moriquen_ in Quenya. Concerning the translation, I would rather
        recommend to contact the Elfling group:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfling

        > Of course, I could be TOTALLY wrong.
        > Also, I'm not sure about the transcription tool I'm using, but I
        > think this is how you would print it:

        > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/xipetotec1/tengpic.jpg

        Well, here I can give my two cents...

        If you're transcribing a Quenya sentence then you have to use
        Quenya "mode" on the tengscriber. Well, I think there is no need to
        glut you with information about how the Tengwar works, so here are
        the "codes" you can copy & paste into your word editor and change the
        font to a Tengwar font:

        5^,F 'family' _nosse_
        `B 7~B5# `C6 t^65# z~V5 'the crowned and dark one' _i rína ar morna
        quén_ (for omitting the AND _ar_, just withdraw the `C6).

        But since I am not sure about the Quenya sentence I'd rather
        recommend to wait for some Elfling help.

        cal






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      • worldofbob2001
        Thanks alot for your help. It is fantastic. Amased at anyone able to do these sorts of things. Languages and letter system confuse and scare me :D Right time
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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          Thanks alot for your help. It is fantastic. Amased at anyone able to
          do these sorts of things. Languages and letter system confuse and
          scare me :D

          Right time to work out the placment of this tattoo :)
        • worldofbob2001
          ... Just one last thing. is here any chance of spliting the strings up to the individual words for me please. i know its alot to ask but looking at both codes
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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            --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "calwen76" <calwen.rudh@s...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001"
            > <worldofbob2001@y...> wrote:
            > >> `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{6R
            > >> and
            > >> `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2È{ w`V `C
            > >> rzG1t% 5`N jx^{È6

            Just one last thing. is here any chance of spliting the strings up to
            the individual words for me please. i know its alot to ask but looking
            at both codes I see areas that should be the same word but are different.

            correct me were I go wrong.

            I = `B
            Will = yj%°
            rise = 78%Ê
            up = qJ
            above (this is the first problem)w#r^È or w#r^È
            the = @
            flames = ejt#È+ or ejt#È+
            and = 2{or 2È{
            be = w`V
            a = `C
            victim = rzG1t%
            no = 5`N
            longer = jx^{È6

            I notice it seems to occur twice where an È is in the first transciption.

            Thanks alot again.
            Robert
          • calwen76
            ... transciption. ... _Ê_ is the same as _È_ which is the same as _È_ --- it is just a matter of a text format that is set in one s computer. In Tengwar
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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              --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
              > I = `B -YES
              > Will = yj%°
              > rise = 78%Ê
              > up = qJ
              > above (this is the first problem)w#r^È or w#r^È
              > the = @
              > flames = ejt#È+ or ejt#È+
              > and = 2{or 2È{
              > be = w`V
              > a = `C
              > victim = rzG1t%
              > no = 5`N
              > longer = jx^{È6
              >
              > I notice it seems to occur twice where an È is in the first
              transciption.
              >
              > Thanks alot again.
              > Robert

              _Ê_ is the same as _È_ which is the same as _È_ --- it is just a
              matter of a text format that is set in one's computer. In Tengwar
              this code means the silent E in words 'risE, abovE, flamEs, longEr'.

              Lucy
            • worldofbob2001
              ... just a ... Ok hopefully this correct. I have redone the script using the code. hopefully this will be correct now and I can book my place in the chair!!!!!
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 5, 2006
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                > _Ê_ is the same as _È_ which is the same as _È_ --- it is
                just a
                > matter of a text format that is set in one's computer. In Tengwar
                > this code means the silent E in words 'risE, abovE, flamEs, longEr'.
                >
                > Lucy
                >

                Ok hopefully this correct. I have redone the script using the code.
                hopefully this will be correct now and I can book my place in the
                chair!!!!!

                http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=8126re2.jpg&.src=ph


                Thanks Lucy you've been great.

                Robert
              • calwen76
                ... http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=8 126re2.jpg&.src=ph Ups, that s what I have feared.. the text formats mixed it
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 6, 2006
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                  --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
                  > Ok hopefully this correct. I have redone the script using the code.
                  > hopefully this will be correct now and I can book my place in the
                  > chair!!!!!
                  >
                  >
                  http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=8
                  126re2.jpg&.src=ph

                  Ups, that's what I have feared.. the text formats mixed it up... see
                  the correct picture here:

                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/Robert.gif

                  Sorry for the confusion.
                  Lucy
                • worldofbob2001
                  Hi Lucy I think I have it now!! http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=3b9dre2.jpg Hopefully this is it now. It is bold italics
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 6, 2006
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                    Hi Lucy I think I have it now!!

                    http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=3b9dre2.jpg


                    Hopefully this is it now. It is bold italics so I just hope that the
                    way it changes the accents and stuff doesn't affect the meaning (would
                    be a bit of a stupid font if it did!) Still tossing up between regular
                    or bold italic though.
                  • calwen76
                    ... http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=3 b9dre2.jpg ... Hello, well, it shouldn t though the first underdot in the 3rd word
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 9, 2006
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                      --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Lucy I think I have it now!!
                      >
                      >
                      http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=3
                      b9dre2.jpg
                      >
                      >
                      > Hopefully this is it now. It is bold italics so I just hope that the
                      > way it changes the accents and stuff doesn't affect the meaning (would
                      > be a bit of a stupid font if it did!) Still tossing up between regular
                      > or bold italic though.

                      Hello,
                      well, it shouldn't though the first underdot in the 3rd word (rise)
                      should be more centered under the main tengwa (that reminds kinda an
                      arabic numeral 6). Actually, all signs (dots, accute accents, triple
                      dots etc.) have to be centered regarding the tengwa they are under or
                      above it. Also, the S-hook in _flames_ sould be modified since the
                      tengwa for M in _flames_ differs in the italic style.

                      Here is my suggestion:

                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/Robert_italic.gif

                      Lucy
                    • worldofbob2001
                      ... Will try my best to alter it but hopeful it should be ok I can alway ask the tattooist to change it for me. Thanks very very much for your help. You have
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 10, 2006
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                        > Hello,
                        > well, it shouldn't though the first underdot in the 3rd word (rise)
                        > should be more centered under the main tengwa (that reminds kinda an
                        > arabic numeral 6). Actually, all signs (dots, accute accents, triple
                        > dots etc.) have to be centered regarding the tengwa they are under or
                        > above it. Also, the S-hook in _flames_ sould be modified since the
                        > tengwa for M in _flames_ differs in the italic style.
                        >
                        > Here is my suggestion:
                        >
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/Robert_italic.gif
                        >
                        > Lucy
                        >

                        Will try my best to alter it but hopeful it should be ok I can alway
                        ask the tattooist to change it for me. Thanks very very much for your
                        help. You have saved me hours and have allowed me to get the tattoo I
                        want and not look like a moron cause it's wrong.

                        One last question. I have been reading the books again and i now
                        notice that the inscription on the ring on seperates the tengwar where
                        there is punctuation otherwise it remian as one long string of text.
                        Would this be the correct way to represent it?
                      • calwen76
                        ... Yes, if you read the English version of the text on the One Ring then you know that it is a four-verse poem and the verses are separated by Tengwar
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 10, 2006
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                          --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
                          > One last question. I have been reading the books again and i now
                          > notice that the inscription on the ring on seperates the tengwar where
                          > there is punctuation otherwise it remian as one long string of text.
                          > Would this be the correct way to represent it?

                          Yes, if you read the English version of the text on the One Ring then
                          you know that it is a four-verse poem and the verses are separated by
                          Tengwar punctuation. That's why I put the triple dots in the beginning
                          and in the end of the transcription of your sentence here:
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/Robert_italic.gif

                          Hope you'll give us a new tattoo of yours feedback :)

                          Lucy
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