Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [elfscript] DTS 15: Old Norse tengwar?

Expand Messages
  • Melroch 'Aestan
    Yes. _Steinborg_ sure looks like Old Norse. ... -- /BP 8^) -- Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 3, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Yes. _Steinborg_ sure looks like Old Norse.

      j_mach_wust skrev:
      > DTS 15 reads in Latin letters "Stanburg"; below this "Steinborg" and
      > below this in tengwar what appears to read "steinborg" as well.
      >
      > "Stanburg" is Old English for "stone castle". However, what is
      > "Steinborg"?
      >
      > Have a look at the Old Norse Online Base Form Dictionary by Jonathan
      > Slocum and Todd B. Krause from the A. Richard Diebold Center for
      > Indo-European Language and Culture at the Linguistics Research Center
      > of The University of Texas at Austin:
      >
      > http://www.utexas.edu/cola/depts/lrc/eieol/norol-BF-X.html
      >
      > This says that in Old Norse, "steinn" is 'stone', "borg" is 'castle'.
      > So "Steinborg" seems to be Old Norse, not Old English. I don't see
      > however how this fits into the context of the Lord of the Rings, where
      > Old English makes sense since it has been used as a "translation" of
      > the Rohirrims' language, but Old Norse?
      >
      > ---------------------------
      > j. 'mach' wust
      > http://machhezan.tripod.com
      > ---------------------------
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: elfscript@...
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: elfscript-unsubscribe@...
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      --

      /BP 8^)>
      --
      Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~__
      A h-ammen ledin i phith! \ \
      __ ____ ____ _____________ ____ __ __ __ / /
      \ \/___ \\__ \ /___ _____/\ \\__ \\ \ \ \\ \ / /
      / / / / / \ / /Melroch\ \_/ // / / // / / /
      / /___/ /_ / /\ \ / /Roccondil\_ // /__/ // /__/ /
      /_________//_/ \_\/ /Eowine __ / / \___/\_\\___/\_\
      Gwaedhvenn Angeliniel\ \______/ /a/ /_h-adar Merthol naun
      ~~~~~~~~~Kuinondil~~~\________/~~\__/~~~Noolendur~~~~~~
      || Lenda lenda pellalenda pellatellenda kuivie aiya! ||
      "A coincidence, as we say in Middle-Earth" (JRR Tolkien)
    • Arden R. Smith
      ... And if that isn t enough evidence, Christopher Tolkien actually *states* that it s Old Norse in *both* editions of _Pictures by J.R.R. Tolkien_. ... Who
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 3, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        On Jan 3, 2006, at 7:46 AM, j_mach_wust wrote:

        > This says that in Old Norse, "steinn" is 'stone', "borg" is 'castle'.
        > So "Steinborg" seems to be Old Norse, not Old English.

        And if that isn't enough evidence, Christopher Tolkien actually
        *states* that it's Old Norse in *both* editions of _Pictures by J.R.R.
        Tolkien_.

        > I don't see
        > however how this fits into the context of the Lord of the Rings, where
        > Old English makes sense since it has been used as a "translation" of
        > the Rohirrims' language, but Old Norse?

        Who says that it *has* to fit into the context of _The Lord of the
        Rings_? Tolkien did all sorts of random doodling. He doodled in
        Latin. He doodled in Gothic. Why wouldn't he doodle in Old Norse?

        As for the Old English _Stanburg_, that isn't even what the Rohirrim
        normally called Minas Tirith; they called it Mundburg.


        ***************************************************
        Arden R. Smith erilaz@...

        Perilme metto aimaktur perperienta.
        --Elvish proverb

        ***************************************************
      • j_mach_wust
        Arden R. Smith wrote: ... Thanks for pointing that out. It would have been rather strange to me if this hadn t been stated before. I wish I d had made a little
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 4, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Arden R. Smith wrote:
          ...
          > Christopher Tolkien actually
          > *states* that it's Old Norse in *both* editions of _Pictures by
          > J.R.R. Tolkien_.

          Thanks for pointing that out. It would have been rather strange to me
          if this hadn't been stated before. I wish I'd had made a little more
          fotocopies when I borrowed the Pictures...

          > > I don't see
          > > however how this fits into the context of the Lord of the Rings,
          > > where Old English makes sense since it has been used as a
          > > "translation" of the Rohirrims' language, but Old Norse?
          >
          > Who says that it *has* to fit into the context of _The Lord of the
          > Rings_? Tolkien did all sorts of random doodling. He doodled in
          > Latin. He doodled in Gothic. Why wouldn't he doodle in Old Norse?
          >
          > As for the Old English _Stanburg_, that isn't even what the Rohirrim
          > normally called Minas Tirith; they called it Mundburg.

          Of course there's no need at all for it to make sense, but it's a nice
          thing to speculate on the assumption that it would.

          ---------------------------
          j. 'mach' wust
          http://machhezan.tripod.com
          ---------------------------
        • Helge K. Fauskanger
          ... As it happens, Steinborg could just as well be Modern Norwegian, for that matter: Stone-castle , plain and simple. - HKF
          Message 4 of 5 , Jan 8, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            > On Jan 3, 2006, at 7:46 AM, j_mach_wust wrote:
            >
            > > This says that in Old Norse, "steinn" is 'stone', "borg" is 'castle'.
            > > So "Steinborg" seems to be Old Norse, not Old English.

            As it happens, "Steinborg" could just as well be Modern Norwegian, for that
            matter: "Stone-castle", plain and simple.

            - HKF
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.