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Re: help required with another tattoo!!!

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  • balroghead
    I think its great to see a kindred spirit tattoo enthusiast. As you may have seen I posted my own questions just before yours. Not really sure why I didn t get
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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      I think its great to see a kindred spirit tattoo enthusiast. As you
      may have seen I posted my own questions just before yours. Not
      really sure why I didn't get any answers :) ... but anyway, maybe it
      was my uncertainty.


      That being said. I myself am going for "the crowned and dark one"
      OR "the crowned dark one" ... sounds evil right? Except it's the
      meanings of mine and my wife's name. I also decided to have it in
      Quenya written in Tengwar.

      I *think* I have it right when I say :
      i rína ar morna quén
      or
      i rína morna quén ( without the "THE" ).

      Of course, I could be TOTALLY wrong.
      Also, I'm not sure about the transcription tool I'm using, but I
      think this is how you would print it:

      <a
      href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/xipetotec1/tengpic.jpg">
      My Tengwar Translation? </a>



      --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001"
      <worldofbob2001@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Sorry for posting so many time. Espeacially if you get these in
      your
      > email!!!
      >
      > Jut though I'd exlpain a little further the meaning behind the
      phrase
      > i choose. although it may bore most i belive that phrases such as
      this
      > are pointless without true meaning behind them and tattoos are even
      > more pointless if they don't have some meaning to the person that
      have
      > them.
      >
      > "i will rise up above the flames and be a victim no longer"
      >
      > Basically I have been through a hard time over the last 7 months.
      It
      > all started wieith splitting my girlfrnd of 6 years and i went of
      the
      > rails a little, lost my job and had to return home to Ireland (i
      was
      > living in wales). This was when I decided to get my first tattoos
      > before I left wales. One was of a 8 point compass like design on my
      > right forearm. this was to represnt the choices now ahead of me
      and is
      > in a position that I am always reminded of the fact that you are
      never
      > without choice. The second was the aforementioned dragon. I always
      > meant for it to be surrounded by flame at some point but couldn't
      work
      > out a good way to terminate the flame above my elbow so it wasn;t
      just
      > appearing from nowhere. This is when I thought that maybe a tribal
      > band would be a good choice but was relucent because, lets face it,
      > everyone has one.
      >
      > Then while watching fellowship one day I noticed how beautifully
      > suited to a band the script inside the ring was. This is when I
      though
      > of the phrase to represent a defiance I have now aquired to stop
      > felling sorry for myself in any situation. So as you can see the
      > phrase sums things up quite well and as I hope you'll agree looks
      > beautiful in script.
      >
      > Robert
      >
    • calwen76
      ... That s the reason why you haven t yet received your answer. Since Robert wants just a transcription because he s used an English sentence, it was much
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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        --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "balroghead" wrote:

        > I also decided to have it in Quenya written in Tengwar.

        That's the reason why you haven't yet received your answer. Since
        Robert wants just a transcription because he's used an English
        sentence, it was much easier and "quicker" to answer him first. This
        group concerns writing systems, many of its members have no (or very
        small) knowledge of Professor's languages (I myself have a very
        little knowledge of Quenya). That's why I'm actually not able to help
        back concerning the Quenya (translation from English -> Quenya) and
        that means that the transcription itself might be in principle
        incorrect in case the translation is incorrect. Do you get my
        point? :)

        > I *think* I have it right when I say :
        > i rína ar morna quén
        > or
        > i rína morna quén ( without the "THE" ).

        Well, I'm not much familiar with Quenya but I still can see the
        definite article THE in the lattest sentence (_i_) but it lacks the
        conjuction AND (_ar_). It may be just a slip from your part, huh? :)
        On the other hand, Tolkien gives us _Moriquendi_ as 'The Dark Elves',
        literally 'The Dark Ones' and if one supposes to make a singular of
        this, which would in English yield 'The Dark One', it would BMVHO be
        *_moriquen_ in Quenya. Concerning the translation, I would rather
        recommend to contact the Elfling group:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfling

        > Of course, I could be TOTALLY wrong.
        > Also, I'm not sure about the transcription tool I'm using, but I
        > think this is how you would print it:

        > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/xipetotec1/tengpic.jpg

        Well, here I can give my two cents...

        If you're transcribing a Quenya sentence then you have to use
        Quenya "mode" on the tengscriber. Well, I think there is no need to
        glut you with information about how the Tengwar works, so here are
        the "codes" you can copy & paste into your word editor and change the
        font to a Tengwar font:

        5^,F 'family' _nosse_
        `B 7~B5# `C6 t^65# z~V5 'the crowned and dark one' _i rína ar morna
        quén_ (for omitting the AND _ar_, just withdraw the `C6).

        But since I am not sure about the Quenya sentence I'd rather
        recommend to wait for some Elfling help.

        cal
      • calwen76
        ... No, the first one is not transcribed correctly, unlike the latter one. I ll try to draw a difference between those two by English: The first one reads: I
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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          --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001"
          <worldofbob2001@y...> wrote:
          >> `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{6R
          >> and
          >> `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2È{ w`V `C
          >> rzG1t% 5`N jx^{È6
          >
          > Are both these transcriptions basically correct for the text?

          No, the first one is not transcribed correctly, unlike the latter one.

          I'll try to draw a difference between those two by English:

          The first one reads: "I will rize up above the flames and be a victim
          no longair." (it is not literally so with the word "longair" but
          approximately designed for this purpose of distinction), and the
          second one reads: "I will rise up above the flames and be a victim no
          longer." So, I think there is no hard decision to make...

          Lucy

          One more thing: the transcriber makes obvious mistakes that we who
          are more familiar with Tengwar can quite easily find and since we are
          using our brain cells (:]) we are able to deduce what is the
          transcription supposed to say... so it is not like that the
          transcriber didn't do many errors, rather on the contrary.
        • Stephane Morrell
          That’s great. I will definitely check into that group and report back here for proper transcriptions if the sentence should be different. I wouldn’t have
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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            That’s great. I will definitely check into that group and report back here
            for proper transcriptions if the sentence should be different. I wouldn’t
            have it any other way as you guys seem to really be knowledgeable when it
            comes to Tengwar.



            I’m sorry if I came off a bit rude before about the non-response, it wasn’t
            my intention. I can completely understand the faster response to the easier
            question ( heck, I end up doing this in my day-to-day work ).



            Thanks again for the codes! I checked them against my original transcription
            that I obtained from the transcriber and the last one I had (using Quenya
            mode ) did indeed match ( what a relief :-) ) …



            _____

            From: elfscript@yahoogroups.com [mailto:elfscript@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Of calwen76
            Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 5:00 AM
            To: elfscript@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [elfscript] Re: help required with another tattoo!!!



            --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "balroghead" wrote:

            > I also decided to have it in Quenya written in Tengwar.

            That's the reason why you haven't yet received your answer. Since
            Robert wants just a transcription because he's used an English
            sentence, it was much easier and "quicker" to answer him first. This
            group concerns writing systems, many of its members have no (or very
            small) knowledge of Professor's languages (I myself have a very
            little knowledge of Quenya). That's why I'm actually not able to help
            back concerning the Quenya (translation from English -> Quenya) and
            that means that the transcription itself might be in principle
            incorrect in case the translation is incorrect. Do you get my
            point? :)

            > I *think* I have it right when I say :
            > i rína ar morna quén
            > or
            > i rína morna quén ( without the "THE" ).

            Well, I'm not much familiar with Quenya but I still can see the
            definite article THE in the lattest sentence (_i_) but it lacks the
            conjuction AND (_ar_). It may be just a slip from your part, huh? :)
            On the other hand, Tolkien gives us _Moriquendi_ as 'The Dark Elves',
            literally 'The Dark Ones' and if one supposes to make a singular of
            this, which would in English yield 'The Dark One', it would BMVHO be
            *_moriquen_ in Quenya. Concerning the translation, I would rather
            recommend to contact the Elfling group:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfling

            > Of course, I could be TOTALLY wrong.
            > Also, I'm not sure about the transcription tool I'm using, but I
            > think this is how you would print it:

            > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/xipetotec1/tengpic.jpg

            Well, here I can give my two cents...

            If you're transcribing a Quenya sentence then you have to use
            Quenya "mode" on the tengscriber. Well, I think there is no need to
            glut you with information about how the Tengwar works, so here are
            the "codes" you can copy & paste into your word editor and change the
            font to a Tengwar font:

            5^,F 'family' _nosse_
            `B 7~B5# `C6 t^65# z~V5 'the crowned and dark one' _i rína ar morna
            quén_ (for omitting the AND _ar_, just withdraw the `C6).

            But since I am not sure about the Quenya sentence I'd rather
            recommend to wait for some Elfling help.

            cal






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          • worldofbob2001
            Thanks alot for your help. It is fantastic. Amased at anyone able to do these sorts of things. Languages and letter system confuse and scare me :D Right time
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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              Thanks alot for your help. It is fantastic. Amased at anyone able to
              do these sorts of things. Languages and letter system confuse and
              scare me :D

              Right time to work out the placment of this tattoo :)
            • worldofbob2001
              ... Just one last thing. is here any chance of spliting the strings up to the individual words for me please. i know its alot to ask but looking at both codes
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "calwen76" <calwen.rudh@s...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001"
                > <worldofbob2001@y...> wrote:
                > >> `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{6R
                > >> and
                > >> `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2È{ w`V `C
                > >> rzG1t% 5`N jx^{È6

                Just one last thing. is here any chance of spliting the strings up to
                the individual words for me please. i know its alot to ask but looking
                at both codes I see areas that should be the same word but are different.

                correct me were I go wrong.

                I = `B
                Will = yj%°
                rise = 78%Ê
                up = qJ
                above (this is the first problem)w#r^È or w#r^È
                the = @
                flames = ejt#È+ or ejt#È+
                and = 2{or 2È{
                be = w`V
                a = `C
                victim = rzG1t%
                no = 5`N
                longer = jx^{È6

                I notice it seems to occur twice where an È is in the first transciption.

                Thanks alot again.
                Robert
              • calwen76
                ... transciption. ... _Ê_ is the same as _È_ which is the same as _È_ --- it is just a matter of a text format that is set in one s computer. In Tengwar
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                  --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
                  > I = `B -YES
                  > Will = yj%°
                  > rise = 78%Ê
                  > up = qJ
                  > above (this is the first problem)w#r^È or w#r^È
                  > the = @
                  > flames = ejt#È+ or ejt#È+
                  > and = 2{or 2È{
                  > be = w`V
                  > a = `C
                  > victim = rzG1t%
                  > no = 5`N
                  > longer = jx^{È6
                  >
                  > I notice it seems to occur twice where an È is in the first
                  transciption.
                  >
                  > Thanks alot again.
                  > Robert

                  _Ê_ is the same as _È_ which is the same as _È_ --- it is just a
                  matter of a text format that is set in one's computer. In Tengwar
                  this code means the silent E in words 'risE, abovE, flamEs, longEr'.

                  Lucy
                • worldofbob2001
                  ... just a ... Ok hopefully this correct. I have redone the script using the code. hopefully this will be correct now and I can book my place in the chair!!!!!
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 5, 2006
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                    > _Ê_ is the same as _È_ which is the same as _È_ --- it is
                    just a
                    > matter of a text format that is set in one's computer. In Tengwar
                    > this code means the silent E in words 'risE, abovE, flamEs, longEr'.
                    >
                    > Lucy
                    >

                    Ok hopefully this correct. I have redone the script using the code.
                    hopefully this will be correct now and I can book my place in the
                    chair!!!!!

                    http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=8126re2.jpg&.src=ph


                    Thanks Lucy you've been great.

                    Robert
                  • calwen76
                    ... http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=8 126re2.jpg&.src=ph Ups, that s what I have feared.. the text formats mixed it
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 6, 2006
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                      --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
                      > Ok hopefully this correct. I have redone the script using the code.
                      > hopefully this will be correct now and I can book my place in the
                      > chair!!!!!
                      >
                      >
                      http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=8
                      126re2.jpg&.src=ph

                      Ups, that's what I have feared.. the text formats mixed it up... see
                      the correct picture here:

                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/Robert.gif

                      Sorry for the confusion.
                      Lucy
                    • worldofbob2001
                      Hi Lucy I think I have it now!! http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=3b9dre2.jpg Hopefully this is it now. It is bold italics
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 6, 2006
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                        Hi Lucy I think I have it now!!

                        http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=3b9dre2.jpg


                        Hopefully this is it now. It is bold italics so I just hope that the
                        way it changes the accents and stuff doesn't affect the meaning (would
                        be a bit of a stupid font if it did!) Still tossing up between regular
                        or bold italic though.
                      • calwen76
                        ... http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=3 b9dre2.jpg ... Hello, well, it shouldn t though the first underdot in the 3rd word
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 9, 2006
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                          --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Lucy I think I have it now!!
                          >
                          >
                          http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=3
                          b9dre2.jpg
                          >
                          >
                          > Hopefully this is it now. It is bold italics so I just hope that the
                          > way it changes the accents and stuff doesn't affect the meaning (would
                          > be a bit of a stupid font if it did!) Still tossing up between regular
                          > or bold italic though.

                          Hello,
                          well, it shouldn't though the first underdot in the 3rd word (rise)
                          should be more centered under the main tengwa (that reminds kinda an
                          arabic numeral 6). Actually, all signs (dots, accute accents, triple
                          dots etc.) have to be centered regarding the tengwa they are under or
                          above it. Also, the S-hook in _flames_ sould be modified since the
                          tengwa for M in _flames_ differs in the italic style.

                          Here is my suggestion:

                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/Robert_italic.gif

                          Lucy
                        • worldofbob2001
                          ... Will try my best to alter it but hopeful it should be ok I can alway ask the tattooist to change it for me. Thanks very very much for your help. You have
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jan 10, 2006
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                            > Hello,
                            > well, it shouldn't though the first underdot in the 3rd word (rise)
                            > should be more centered under the main tengwa (that reminds kinda an
                            > arabic numeral 6). Actually, all signs (dots, accute accents, triple
                            > dots etc.) have to be centered regarding the tengwa they are under or
                            > above it. Also, the S-hook in _flames_ sould be modified since the
                            > tengwa for M in _flames_ differs in the italic style.
                            >
                            > Here is my suggestion:
                            >
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/Robert_italic.gif
                            >
                            > Lucy
                            >

                            Will try my best to alter it but hopeful it should be ok I can alway
                            ask the tattooist to change it for me. Thanks very very much for your
                            help. You have saved me hours and have allowed me to get the tattoo I
                            want and not look like a moron cause it's wrong.

                            One last question. I have been reading the books again and i now
                            notice that the inscription on the ring on seperates the tengwar where
                            there is punctuation otherwise it remian as one long string of text.
                            Would this be the correct way to represent it?
                          • calwen76
                            ... Yes, if you read the English version of the text on the One Ring then you know that it is a four-verse poem and the verses are separated by Tengwar
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jan 10, 2006
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                              --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
                              > One last question. I have been reading the books again and i now
                              > notice that the inscription on the ring on seperates the tengwar where
                              > there is punctuation otherwise it remian as one long string of text.
                              > Would this be the correct way to represent it?

                              Yes, if you read the English version of the text on the One Ring then
                              you know that it is a four-verse poem and the verses are separated by
                              Tengwar punctuation. That's why I put the triple dots in the beginning
                              and in the end of the transcription of your sentence here:
                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/Robert_italic.gif

                              Hope you'll give us a new tattoo of yours feedback :)

                              Lucy
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