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Re: help required with another tattoo!!!

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  • worldofbob2001
    Well at least it reads what it is meant to. i was worried it might say something like I wear pink knickers or something :D It is getting done on my left arm
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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      Well at least it reads what it is meant to. i was worried it might say
      something like I wear pink knickers or something :D


      It is getting done on my left arm about an inch above the elbow. From
      this i am getting flames tattooed to surrond a tribal style dragon i
      already have.

      thanks loads. You've been great.
    • worldofbob2001
      `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{6R and `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2È{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{È6 Lucy Are both these
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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        `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{6R


        and


        `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2È{ w`V `C rzG1t%
        5`N jx^{È6

        Lucy


        Are both these transcriptions basically correct for the text?

        If so then I'll probably go for the first one as I believe it is more
        suitable for a tattoo due to a decreased character count and
        simplified accents. This will be going on me forever soo naturally you
        can understand my interest in getting this as correct as possible.
        quite impressed that despite problems with the transcription that the
        first example said what I wanted!!!

        Thanks again. I am getting very excited about this now. Should be
        getting it this month. Will post a pic when it's done.
      • worldofbob2001
        Sorry for posting so many time. Espeacially if you get these in your email!!! Jut though I d exlpain a little further the meaning behind the phrase i choose.
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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          Sorry for posting so many time. Espeacially if you get these in your
          email!!!

          Jut though I'd exlpain a little further the meaning behind the phrase
          i choose. although it may bore most i belive that phrases such as this
          are pointless without true meaning behind them and tattoos are even
          more pointless if they don't have some meaning to the person that have
          them.

          "i will rise up above the flames and be a victim no longer"

          Basically I have been through a hard time over the last 7 months. It
          all started wieith splitting my girlfrnd of 6 years and i went of the
          rails a little, lost my job and had to return home to Ireland (i was
          living in wales). This was when I decided to get my first tattoos
          before I left wales. One was of a 8 point compass like design on my
          right forearm. this was to represnt the choices now ahead of me and is
          in a position that I am always reminded of the fact that you are never
          without choice. The second was the aforementioned dragon. I always
          meant for it to be surrounded by flame at some point but couldn't work
          out a good way to terminate the flame above my elbow so it wasn;t just
          appearing from nowhere. This is when I thought that maybe a tribal
          band would be a good choice but was relucent because, lets face it,
          everyone has one.

          Then while watching fellowship one day I noticed how beautifully
          suited to a band the script inside the ring was. This is when I though
          of the phrase to represent a defiance I have now aquired to stop
          felling sorry for myself in any situation. So as you can see the
          phrase sums things up quite well and as I hope you'll agree looks
          beautiful in script.

          Robert
        • balroghead
          I think its great to see a kindred spirit tattoo enthusiast. As you may have seen I posted my own questions just before yours. Not really sure why I didn t get
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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            I think its great to see a kindred spirit tattoo enthusiast. As you
            may have seen I posted my own questions just before yours. Not
            really sure why I didn't get any answers :) ... but anyway, maybe it
            was my uncertainty.


            That being said. I myself am going for "the crowned and dark one"
            OR "the crowned dark one" ... sounds evil right? Except it's the
            meanings of mine and my wife's name. I also decided to have it in
            Quenya written in Tengwar.

            I *think* I have it right when I say :
            i rína ar morna quén
            or
            i rína morna quén ( without the "THE" ).

            Of course, I could be TOTALLY wrong.
            Also, I'm not sure about the transcription tool I'm using, but I
            think this is how you would print it:

            <a
            href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/xipetotec1/tengpic.jpg">
            My Tengwar Translation? </a>



            --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001"
            <worldofbob2001@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Sorry for posting so many time. Espeacially if you get these in
            your
            > email!!!
            >
            > Jut though I'd exlpain a little further the meaning behind the
            phrase
            > i choose. although it may bore most i belive that phrases such as
            this
            > are pointless without true meaning behind them and tattoos are even
            > more pointless if they don't have some meaning to the person that
            have
            > them.
            >
            > "i will rise up above the flames and be a victim no longer"
            >
            > Basically I have been through a hard time over the last 7 months.
            It
            > all started wieith splitting my girlfrnd of 6 years and i went of
            the
            > rails a little, lost my job and had to return home to Ireland (i
            was
            > living in wales). This was when I decided to get my first tattoos
            > before I left wales. One was of a 8 point compass like design on my
            > right forearm. this was to represnt the choices now ahead of me
            and is
            > in a position that I am always reminded of the fact that you are
            never
            > without choice. The second was the aforementioned dragon. I always
            > meant for it to be surrounded by flame at some point but couldn't
            work
            > out a good way to terminate the flame above my elbow so it wasn;t
            just
            > appearing from nowhere. This is when I thought that maybe a tribal
            > band would be a good choice but was relucent because, lets face it,
            > everyone has one.
            >
            > Then while watching fellowship one day I noticed how beautifully
            > suited to a band the script inside the ring was. This is when I
            though
            > of the phrase to represent a defiance I have now aquired to stop
            > felling sorry for myself in any situation. So as you can see the
            > phrase sums things up quite well and as I hope you'll agree looks
            > beautiful in script.
            >
            > Robert
            >
          • calwen76
            ... That s the reason why you haven t yet received your answer. Since Robert wants just a transcription because he s used an English sentence, it was much
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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              --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "balroghead" wrote:

              > I also decided to have it in Quenya written in Tengwar.

              That's the reason why you haven't yet received your answer. Since
              Robert wants just a transcription because he's used an English
              sentence, it was much easier and "quicker" to answer him first. This
              group concerns writing systems, many of its members have no (or very
              small) knowledge of Professor's languages (I myself have a very
              little knowledge of Quenya). That's why I'm actually not able to help
              back concerning the Quenya (translation from English -> Quenya) and
              that means that the transcription itself might be in principle
              incorrect in case the translation is incorrect. Do you get my
              point? :)

              > I *think* I have it right when I say :
              > i rína ar morna quén
              > or
              > i rína morna quén ( without the "THE" ).

              Well, I'm not much familiar with Quenya but I still can see the
              definite article THE in the lattest sentence (_i_) but it lacks the
              conjuction AND (_ar_). It may be just a slip from your part, huh? :)
              On the other hand, Tolkien gives us _Moriquendi_ as 'The Dark Elves',
              literally 'The Dark Ones' and if one supposes to make a singular of
              this, which would in English yield 'The Dark One', it would BMVHO be
              *_moriquen_ in Quenya. Concerning the translation, I would rather
              recommend to contact the Elfling group:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfling

              > Of course, I could be TOTALLY wrong.
              > Also, I'm not sure about the transcription tool I'm using, but I
              > think this is how you would print it:

              > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/xipetotec1/tengpic.jpg

              Well, here I can give my two cents...

              If you're transcribing a Quenya sentence then you have to use
              Quenya "mode" on the tengscriber. Well, I think there is no need to
              glut you with information about how the Tengwar works, so here are
              the "codes" you can copy & paste into your word editor and change the
              font to a Tengwar font:

              5^,F 'family' _nosse_
              `B 7~B5# `C6 t^65# z~V5 'the crowned and dark one' _i rína ar morna
              quén_ (for omitting the AND _ar_, just withdraw the `C6).

              But since I am not sure about the Quenya sentence I'd rather
              recommend to wait for some Elfling help.

              cal
            • calwen76
              ... No, the first one is not transcribed correctly, unlike the latter one. I ll try to draw a difference between those two by English: The first one reads: I
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001"
                <worldofbob2001@y...> wrote:
                >> `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{6R
                >> and
                >> `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2È{ w`V `C
                >> rzG1t% 5`N jx^{È6
                >
                > Are both these transcriptions basically correct for the text?

                No, the first one is not transcribed correctly, unlike the latter one.

                I'll try to draw a difference between those two by English:

                The first one reads: "I will rize up above the flames and be a victim
                no longair." (it is not literally so with the word "longair" but
                approximately designed for this purpose of distinction), and the
                second one reads: "I will rise up above the flames and be a victim no
                longer." So, I think there is no hard decision to make...

                Lucy

                One more thing: the transcriber makes obvious mistakes that we who
                are more familiar with Tengwar can quite easily find and since we are
                using our brain cells (:]) we are able to deduce what is the
                transcription supposed to say... so it is not like that the
                transcriber didn't do many errors, rather on the contrary.
              • Stephane Morrell
                That’s great. I will definitely check into that group and report back here for proper transcriptions if the sentence should be different. I wouldn’t have
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                  That’s great. I will definitely check into that group and report back here
                  for proper transcriptions if the sentence should be different. I wouldn’t
                  have it any other way as you guys seem to really be knowledgeable when it
                  comes to Tengwar.



                  I’m sorry if I came off a bit rude before about the non-response, it wasn’t
                  my intention. I can completely understand the faster response to the easier
                  question ( heck, I end up doing this in my day-to-day work ).



                  Thanks again for the codes! I checked them against my original transcription
                  that I obtained from the transcriber and the last one I had (using Quenya
                  mode ) did indeed match ( what a relief :-) ) …



                  _____

                  From: elfscript@yahoogroups.com [mailto:elfscript@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of calwen76
                  Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 5:00 AM
                  To: elfscript@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [elfscript] Re: help required with another tattoo!!!



                  --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "balroghead" wrote:

                  > I also decided to have it in Quenya written in Tengwar.

                  That's the reason why you haven't yet received your answer. Since
                  Robert wants just a transcription because he's used an English
                  sentence, it was much easier and "quicker" to answer him first. This
                  group concerns writing systems, many of its members have no (or very
                  small) knowledge of Professor's languages (I myself have a very
                  little knowledge of Quenya). That's why I'm actually not able to help
                  back concerning the Quenya (translation from English -> Quenya) and
                  that means that the transcription itself might be in principle
                  incorrect in case the translation is incorrect. Do you get my
                  point? :)

                  > I *think* I have it right when I say :
                  > i rína ar morna quén
                  > or
                  > i rína morna quén ( without the "THE" ).

                  Well, I'm not much familiar with Quenya but I still can see the
                  definite article THE in the lattest sentence (_i_) but it lacks the
                  conjuction AND (_ar_). It may be just a slip from your part, huh? :)
                  On the other hand, Tolkien gives us _Moriquendi_ as 'The Dark Elves',
                  literally 'The Dark Ones' and if one supposes to make a singular of
                  this, which would in English yield 'The Dark One', it would BMVHO be
                  *_moriquen_ in Quenya. Concerning the translation, I would rather
                  recommend to contact the Elfling group:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfling

                  > Of course, I could be TOTALLY wrong.
                  > Also, I'm not sure about the transcription tool I'm using, but I
                  > think this is how you would print it:

                  > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/xipetotec1/tengpic.jpg

                  Well, here I can give my two cents...

                  If you're transcribing a Quenya sentence then you have to use
                  Quenya "mode" on the tengscriber. Well, I think there is no need to
                  glut you with information about how the Tengwar works, so here are
                  the "codes" you can copy & paste into your word editor and change the
                  font to a Tengwar font:

                  5^,F 'family' _nosse_
                  `B 7~B5# `C6 t^65# z~V5 'the crowned and dark one' _i rína ar morna
                  quén_ (for omitting the AND _ar_, just withdraw the `C6).

                  But since I am not sure about the Quenya sentence I'd rather
                  recommend to wait for some Elfling help.

                  cal






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                • worldofbob2001
                  Thanks alot for your help. It is fantastic. Amased at anyone able to do these sorts of things. Languages and letter system confuse and scare me :D Right time
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                    Thanks alot for your help. It is fantastic. Amased at anyone able to
                    do these sorts of things. Languages and letter system confuse and
                    scare me :D

                    Right time to work out the placment of this tattoo :)
                  • worldofbob2001
                    ... Just one last thing. is here any chance of spliting the strings up to the individual words for me please. i know its alot to ask but looking at both codes
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                      --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "calwen76" <calwen.rudh@s...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001"
                      > <worldofbob2001@y...> wrote:
                      > >> `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{6R
                      > >> and
                      > >> `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2È{ w`V `C
                      > >> rzG1t% 5`N jx^{È6

                      Just one last thing. is here any chance of spliting the strings up to
                      the individual words for me please. i know its alot to ask but looking
                      at both codes I see areas that should be the same word but are different.

                      correct me were I go wrong.

                      I = `B
                      Will = yj%°
                      rise = 78%Ê
                      up = qJ
                      above (this is the first problem)w#r^È or w#r^È
                      the = @
                      flames = ejt#È+ or ejt#È+
                      and = 2{or 2È{
                      be = w`V
                      a = `C
                      victim = rzG1t%
                      no = 5`N
                      longer = jx^{È6

                      I notice it seems to occur twice where an È is in the first transciption.

                      Thanks alot again.
                      Robert
                    • calwen76
                      ... transciption. ... _Ê_ is the same as _È_ which is the same as _È_ --- it is just a matter of a text format that is set in one s computer. In Tengwar
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                        --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
                        > I = `B -YES
                        > Will = yj%°
                        > rise = 78%Ê
                        > up = qJ
                        > above (this is the first problem)w#r^È or w#r^È
                        > the = @
                        > flames = ejt#È+ or ejt#È+
                        > and = 2{or 2È{
                        > be = w`V
                        > a = `C
                        > victim = rzG1t%
                        > no = 5`N
                        > longer = jx^{È6
                        >
                        > I notice it seems to occur twice where an È is in the first
                        transciption.
                        >
                        > Thanks alot again.
                        > Robert

                        _Ê_ is the same as _È_ which is the same as _È_ --- it is just a
                        matter of a text format that is set in one's computer. In Tengwar
                        this code means the silent E in words 'risE, abovE, flamEs, longEr'.

                        Lucy
                      • worldofbob2001
                        ... just a ... Ok hopefully this correct. I have redone the script using the code. hopefully this will be correct now and I can book my place in the chair!!!!!
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 5, 2006
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                          > _Ê_ is the same as _È_ which is the same as _È_ --- it is
                          just a
                          > matter of a text format that is set in one's computer. In Tengwar
                          > this code means the silent E in words 'risE, abovE, flamEs, longEr'.
                          >
                          > Lucy
                          >

                          Ok hopefully this correct. I have redone the script using the code.
                          hopefully this will be correct now and I can book my place in the
                          chair!!!!!

                          http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=8126re2.jpg&.src=ph


                          Thanks Lucy you've been great.

                          Robert
                        • calwen76
                          ... http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=8 126re2.jpg&.src=ph Ups, that s what I have feared.. the text formats mixed it
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jan 6, 2006
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                            --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
                            > Ok hopefully this correct. I have redone the script using the code.
                            > hopefully this will be correct now and I can book my place in the
                            > chair!!!!!
                            >
                            >
                            http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=8
                            126re2.jpg&.src=ph

                            Ups, that's what I have feared.. the text formats mixed it up... see
                            the correct picture here:

                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/Robert.gif

                            Sorry for the confusion.
                            Lucy
                          • worldofbob2001
                            Hi Lucy I think I have it now!! http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=3b9dre2.jpg Hopefully this is it now. It is bold italics
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jan 6, 2006
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                              Hi Lucy I think I have it now!!

                              http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=3b9dre2.jpg


                              Hopefully this is it now. It is bold italics so I just hope that the
                              way it changes the accents and stuff doesn't affect the meaning (would
                              be a bit of a stupid font if it did!) Still tossing up between regular
                              or bold italic though.
                            • calwen76
                              ... http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=3 b9dre2.jpg ... Hello, well, it shouldn t though the first underdot in the 3rd word
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jan 9, 2006
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                                --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi Lucy I think I have it now!!
                                >
                                >
                                http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=3
                                b9dre2.jpg
                                >
                                >
                                > Hopefully this is it now. It is bold italics so I just hope that the
                                > way it changes the accents and stuff doesn't affect the meaning (would
                                > be a bit of a stupid font if it did!) Still tossing up between regular
                                > or bold italic though.

                                Hello,
                                well, it shouldn't though the first underdot in the 3rd word (rise)
                                should be more centered under the main tengwa (that reminds kinda an
                                arabic numeral 6). Actually, all signs (dots, accute accents, triple
                                dots etc.) have to be centered regarding the tengwa they are under or
                                above it. Also, the S-hook in _flames_ sould be modified since the
                                tengwa for M in _flames_ differs in the italic style.

                                Here is my suggestion:

                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/Robert_italic.gif

                                Lucy
                              • worldofbob2001
                                ... Will try my best to alter it but hopeful it should be ok I can alway ask the tattooist to change it for me. Thanks very very much for your help. You have
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jan 10, 2006
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                                  > Hello,
                                  > well, it shouldn't though the first underdot in the 3rd word (rise)
                                  > should be more centered under the main tengwa (that reminds kinda an
                                  > arabic numeral 6). Actually, all signs (dots, accute accents, triple
                                  > dots etc.) have to be centered regarding the tengwa they are under or
                                  > above it. Also, the S-hook in _flames_ sould be modified since the
                                  > tengwa for M in _flames_ differs in the italic style.
                                  >
                                  > Here is my suggestion:
                                  >
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/Robert_italic.gif
                                  >
                                  > Lucy
                                  >

                                  Will try my best to alter it but hopeful it should be ok I can alway
                                  ask the tattooist to change it for me. Thanks very very much for your
                                  help. You have saved me hours and have allowed me to get the tattoo I
                                  want and not look like a moron cause it's wrong.

                                  One last question. I have been reading the books again and i now
                                  notice that the inscription on the ring on seperates the tengwar where
                                  there is punctuation otherwise it remian as one long string of text.
                                  Would this be the correct way to represent it?
                                • calwen76
                                  ... Yes, if you read the English version of the text on the One Ring then you know that it is a four-verse poem and the verses are separated by Tengwar
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jan 10, 2006
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                                    --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
                                    > One last question. I have been reading the books again and i now
                                    > notice that the inscription on the ring on seperates the tengwar where
                                    > there is punctuation otherwise it remian as one long string of text.
                                    > Would this be the correct way to represent it?

                                    Yes, if you read the English version of the text on the One Ring then
                                    you know that it is a four-verse poem and the verses are separated by
                                    Tengwar punctuation. That's why I put the triple dots in the beginning
                                    and in the end of the transcription of your sentence here:
                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/Robert_italic.gif

                                    Hope you'll give us a new tattoo of yours feedback :)

                                    Lucy
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