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DTS 15: Old Norse tengwar?

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  • j_mach_wust
    DTS 15 reads in Latin letters Stanburg ; below this Steinborg and below this in tengwar what appears to read steinborg as well. Stanburg is Old English
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 3, 2006
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      DTS 15 reads in Latin letters "Stanburg"; below this "Steinborg" and
      below this in tengwar what appears to read "steinborg" as well.

      "Stanburg" is Old English for "stone castle". However, what is
      "Steinborg"?

      Have a look at the Old Norse Online Base Form Dictionary by Jonathan
      Slocum and Todd B. Krause from the A. Richard Diebold Center for
      Indo-European Language and Culture at the Linguistics Research Center
      of The University of Texas at Austin:

      http://www.utexas.edu/cola/depts/lrc/eieol/norol-BF-X.html

      This says that in Old Norse, "steinn" is 'stone', "borg" is 'castle'.
      So "Steinborg" seems to be Old Norse, not Old English. I don't see
      however how this fits into the context of the Lord of the Rings, where
      Old English makes sense since it has been used as a "translation" of
      the Rohirrims' language, but Old Norse?

      ---------------------------
      j. 'mach' wust
      http://machhezan.tripod.com
      ---------------------------
    • Melroch 'Aestan
      Yes. _Steinborg_ sure looks like Old Norse. ... -- /BP 8^) -- Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 3, 2006
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        Yes. _Steinborg_ sure looks like Old Norse.

        j_mach_wust skrev:
        > DTS 15 reads in Latin letters "Stanburg"; below this "Steinborg" and
        > below this in tengwar what appears to read "steinborg" as well.
        >
        > "Stanburg" is Old English for "stone castle". However, what is
        > "Steinborg"?
        >
        > Have a look at the Old Norse Online Base Form Dictionary by Jonathan
        > Slocum and Todd B. Krause from the A. Richard Diebold Center for
        > Indo-European Language and Culture at the Linguistics Research Center
        > of The University of Texas at Austin:
        >
        > http://www.utexas.edu/cola/depts/lrc/eieol/norol-BF-X.html
        >
        > This says that in Old Norse, "steinn" is 'stone', "borg" is 'castle'.
        > So "Steinborg" seems to be Old Norse, not Old English. I don't see
        > however how this fits into the context of the Lord of the Rings, where
        > Old English makes sense since it has been used as a "translation" of
        > the Rohirrims' language, but Old Norse?
        >
        > ---------------------------
        > j. 'mach' wust
        > http://machhezan.tripod.com
        > ---------------------------
        >
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        --

        /BP 8^)>
        --
        Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~__
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        \ \/___ \\__ \ /___ _____/\ \\__ \\ \ \ \\ \ / /
        / / / / / \ / /Melroch\ \_/ // / / // / / /
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        "A coincidence, as we say in Middle-Earth" (JRR Tolkien)
      • Arden R. Smith
        ... And if that isn t enough evidence, Christopher Tolkien actually *states* that it s Old Norse in *both* editions of _Pictures by J.R.R. Tolkien_. ... Who
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 3, 2006
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          On Jan 3, 2006, at 7:46 AM, j_mach_wust wrote:

          > This says that in Old Norse, "steinn" is 'stone', "borg" is 'castle'.
          > So "Steinborg" seems to be Old Norse, not Old English.

          And if that isn't enough evidence, Christopher Tolkien actually
          *states* that it's Old Norse in *both* editions of _Pictures by J.R.R.
          Tolkien_.

          > I don't see
          > however how this fits into the context of the Lord of the Rings, where
          > Old English makes sense since it has been used as a "translation" of
          > the Rohirrims' language, but Old Norse?

          Who says that it *has* to fit into the context of _The Lord of the
          Rings_? Tolkien did all sorts of random doodling. He doodled in
          Latin. He doodled in Gothic. Why wouldn't he doodle in Old Norse?

          As for the Old English _Stanburg_, that isn't even what the Rohirrim
          normally called Minas Tirith; they called it Mundburg.


          ***************************************************
          Arden R. Smith erilaz@...

          Perilme metto aimaktur perperienta.
          --Elvish proverb

          ***************************************************
        • j_mach_wust
          Arden R. Smith wrote: ... Thanks for pointing that out. It would have been rather strange to me if this hadn t been stated before. I wish I d had made a little
          Message 4 of 5 , Jan 4, 2006
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            Arden R. Smith wrote:
            ...
            > Christopher Tolkien actually
            > *states* that it's Old Norse in *both* editions of _Pictures by
            > J.R.R. Tolkien_.

            Thanks for pointing that out. It would have been rather strange to me
            if this hadn't been stated before. I wish I'd had made a little more
            fotocopies when I borrowed the Pictures...

            > > I don't see
            > > however how this fits into the context of the Lord of the Rings,
            > > where Old English makes sense since it has been used as a
            > > "translation" of the Rohirrims' language, but Old Norse?
            >
            > Who says that it *has* to fit into the context of _The Lord of the
            > Rings_? Tolkien did all sorts of random doodling. He doodled in
            > Latin. He doodled in Gothic. Why wouldn't he doodle in Old Norse?
            >
            > As for the Old English _Stanburg_, that isn't even what the Rohirrim
            > normally called Minas Tirith; they called it Mundburg.

            Of course there's no need at all for it to make sense, but it's a nice
            thing to speculate on the assumption that it would.

            ---------------------------
            j. 'mach' wust
            http://machhezan.tripod.com
            ---------------------------
          • Helge K. Fauskanger
            ... As it happens, Steinborg could just as well be Modern Norwegian, for that matter: Stone-castle , plain and simple. - HKF
            Message 5 of 5 , Jan 8, 2006
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              > On Jan 3, 2006, at 7:46 AM, j_mach_wust wrote:
              >
              > > This says that in Old Norse, "steinn" is 'stone', "borg" is 'castle'.
              > > So "Steinborg" seems to be Old Norse, not Old English.

              As it happens, "Steinborg" could just as well be Modern Norwegian, for that
              matter: "Stone-castle", plain and simple.

              - HKF
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