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Re: help required with another tattoo!!!

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  • calwen76
    ... following code ... if ... form ... one rice . Theoretically (following Tolkien s is transcribed in the DTS 10, or as in DTS 5), the modified esse
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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      --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "j_mach_wust" <j_mach_wust@y...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Lucy wrote:
      > > So, BMO the transription should be (copy & paste the
      following "code"
      > > into your Word Editor and change the font into Tengwar Annatar,
      if
      > > you need to have it downloaded:
      > > http://home.student.uu.se/jowi4905/fonts/annatar.html):
      > >
      > > `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{6R
      > >
      > > The word 'rise' is somehow not clear to me, I can't decide which
      form
      > > would be the best, other alternatives could be: 7KBÊ or 7iTË
      >
      > The first one is fine; the second reads "rize" and the third
      one "rice".

      Theoretically (following Tolkien's 'is' transcribed in the DTS 10,
      or 'as' in DTS 5), the modified esse wouldn't be such a big mistake,
      huh?

      > Isn't the transcription of "and" supposed to have a dot below?

      The samples show both, I guess (DTS 5 x DTS 10).

      > I'd rather transcribe "longer" with a dot below the G instead of an
      > acute above the R.

      Well, I was not quite decided which one to pick... so:

      `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2È{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{È6

      Lucy
    • worldofbob2001
      Well at least it reads what it is meant to. i was worried it might say something like I wear pink knickers or something :D It is getting done on my left arm
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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        Well at least it reads what it is meant to. i was worried it might say
        something like I wear pink knickers or something :D


        It is getting done on my left arm about an inch above the elbow. From
        this i am getting flames tattooed to surrond a tribal style dragon i
        already have.

        thanks loads. You've been great.
      • worldofbob2001
        `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{6R and `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2È{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{È6 Lucy Are both these
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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          `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{6R


          and


          `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2È{ w`V `C rzG1t%
          5`N jx^{È6

          Lucy


          Are both these transcriptions basically correct for the text?

          If so then I'll probably go for the first one as I believe it is more
          suitable for a tattoo due to a decreased character count and
          simplified accents. This will be going on me forever soo naturally you
          can understand my interest in getting this as correct as possible.
          quite impressed that despite problems with the transcription that the
          first example said what I wanted!!!

          Thanks again. I am getting very excited about this now. Should be
          getting it this month. Will post a pic when it's done.
        • worldofbob2001
          Sorry for posting so many time. Espeacially if you get these in your email!!! Jut though I d exlpain a little further the meaning behind the phrase i choose.
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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            Sorry for posting so many time. Espeacially if you get these in your
            email!!!

            Jut though I'd exlpain a little further the meaning behind the phrase
            i choose. although it may bore most i belive that phrases such as this
            are pointless without true meaning behind them and tattoos are even
            more pointless if they don't have some meaning to the person that have
            them.

            "i will rise up above the flames and be a victim no longer"

            Basically I have been through a hard time over the last 7 months. It
            all started wieith splitting my girlfrnd of 6 years and i went of the
            rails a little, lost my job and had to return home to Ireland (i was
            living in wales). This was when I decided to get my first tattoos
            before I left wales. One was of a 8 point compass like design on my
            right forearm. this was to represnt the choices now ahead of me and is
            in a position that I am always reminded of the fact that you are never
            without choice. The second was the aforementioned dragon. I always
            meant for it to be surrounded by flame at some point but couldn't work
            out a good way to terminate the flame above my elbow so it wasn;t just
            appearing from nowhere. This is when I thought that maybe a tribal
            band would be a good choice but was relucent because, lets face it,
            everyone has one.

            Then while watching fellowship one day I noticed how beautifully
            suited to a band the script inside the ring was. This is when I though
            of the phrase to represent a defiance I have now aquired to stop
            felling sorry for myself in any situation. So as you can see the
            phrase sums things up quite well and as I hope you'll agree looks
            beautiful in script.

            Robert
          • balroghead
            I think its great to see a kindred spirit tattoo enthusiast. As you may have seen I posted my own questions just before yours. Not really sure why I didn t get
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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              I think its great to see a kindred spirit tattoo enthusiast. As you
              may have seen I posted my own questions just before yours. Not
              really sure why I didn't get any answers :) ... but anyway, maybe it
              was my uncertainty.


              That being said. I myself am going for "the crowned and dark one"
              OR "the crowned dark one" ... sounds evil right? Except it's the
              meanings of mine and my wife's name. I also decided to have it in
              Quenya written in Tengwar.

              I *think* I have it right when I say :
              i rína ar morna quén
              or
              i rína morna quén ( without the "THE" ).

              Of course, I could be TOTALLY wrong.
              Also, I'm not sure about the transcription tool I'm using, but I
              think this is how you would print it:

              <a
              href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/xipetotec1/tengpic.jpg">
              My Tengwar Translation? </a>



              --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001"
              <worldofbob2001@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Sorry for posting so many time. Espeacially if you get these in
              your
              > email!!!
              >
              > Jut though I'd exlpain a little further the meaning behind the
              phrase
              > i choose. although it may bore most i belive that phrases such as
              this
              > are pointless without true meaning behind them and tattoos are even
              > more pointless if they don't have some meaning to the person that
              have
              > them.
              >
              > "i will rise up above the flames and be a victim no longer"
              >
              > Basically I have been through a hard time over the last 7 months.
              It
              > all started wieith splitting my girlfrnd of 6 years and i went of
              the
              > rails a little, lost my job and had to return home to Ireland (i
              was
              > living in wales). This was when I decided to get my first tattoos
              > before I left wales. One was of a 8 point compass like design on my
              > right forearm. this was to represnt the choices now ahead of me
              and is
              > in a position that I am always reminded of the fact that you are
              never
              > without choice. The second was the aforementioned dragon. I always
              > meant for it to be surrounded by flame at some point but couldn't
              work
              > out a good way to terminate the flame above my elbow so it wasn;t
              just
              > appearing from nowhere. This is when I thought that maybe a tribal
              > band would be a good choice but was relucent because, lets face it,
              > everyone has one.
              >
              > Then while watching fellowship one day I noticed how beautifully
              > suited to a band the script inside the ring was. This is when I
              though
              > of the phrase to represent a defiance I have now aquired to stop
              > felling sorry for myself in any situation. So as you can see the
              > phrase sums things up quite well and as I hope you'll agree looks
              > beautiful in script.
              >
              > Robert
              >
            • calwen76
              ... That s the reason why you haven t yet received your answer. Since Robert wants just a transcription because he s used an English sentence, it was much
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "balroghead" wrote:

                > I also decided to have it in Quenya written in Tengwar.

                That's the reason why you haven't yet received your answer. Since
                Robert wants just a transcription because he's used an English
                sentence, it was much easier and "quicker" to answer him first. This
                group concerns writing systems, many of its members have no (or very
                small) knowledge of Professor's languages (I myself have a very
                little knowledge of Quenya). That's why I'm actually not able to help
                back concerning the Quenya (translation from English -> Quenya) and
                that means that the transcription itself might be in principle
                incorrect in case the translation is incorrect. Do you get my
                point? :)

                > I *think* I have it right when I say :
                > i rína ar morna quén
                > or
                > i rína morna quén ( without the "THE" ).

                Well, I'm not much familiar with Quenya but I still can see the
                definite article THE in the lattest sentence (_i_) but it lacks the
                conjuction AND (_ar_). It may be just a slip from your part, huh? :)
                On the other hand, Tolkien gives us _Moriquendi_ as 'The Dark Elves',
                literally 'The Dark Ones' and if one supposes to make a singular of
                this, which would in English yield 'The Dark One', it would BMVHO be
                *_moriquen_ in Quenya. Concerning the translation, I would rather
                recommend to contact the Elfling group:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfling

                > Of course, I could be TOTALLY wrong.
                > Also, I'm not sure about the transcription tool I'm using, but I
                > think this is how you would print it:

                > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/xipetotec1/tengpic.jpg

                Well, here I can give my two cents...

                If you're transcribing a Quenya sentence then you have to use
                Quenya "mode" on the tengscriber. Well, I think there is no need to
                glut you with information about how the Tengwar works, so here are
                the "codes" you can copy & paste into your word editor and change the
                font to a Tengwar font:

                5^,F 'family' _nosse_
                `B 7~B5# `C6 t^65# z~V5 'the crowned and dark one' _i rína ar morna
                quén_ (for omitting the AND _ar_, just withdraw the `C6).

                But since I am not sure about the Quenya sentence I'd rather
                recommend to wait for some Elfling help.

                cal
              • calwen76
                ... No, the first one is not transcribed correctly, unlike the latter one. I ll try to draw a difference between those two by English: The first one reads: I
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                  --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001"
                  <worldofbob2001@y...> wrote:
                  >> `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{6R
                  >> and
                  >> `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2È{ w`V `C
                  >> rzG1t% 5`N jx^{È6
                  >
                  > Are both these transcriptions basically correct for the text?

                  No, the first one is not transcribed correctly, unlike the latter one.

                  I'll try to draw a difference between those two by English:

                  The first one reads: "I will rize up above the flames and be a victim
                  no longair." (it is not literally so with the word "longair" but
                  approximately designed for this purpose of distinction), and the
                  second one reads: "I will rise up above the flames and be a victim no
                  longer." So, I think there is no hard decision to make...

                  Lucy

                  One more thing: the transcriber makes obvious mistakes that we who
                  are more familiar with Tengwar can quite easily find and since we are
                  using our brain cells (:]) we are able to deduce what is the
                  transcription supposed to say... so it is not like that the
                  transcriber didn't do many errors, rather on the contrary.
                • Stephane Morrell
                  That’s great. I will definitely check into that group and report back here for proper transcriptions if the sentence should be different. I wouldn’t have
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                    That’s great. I will definitely check into that group and report back here
                    for proper transcriptions if the sentence should be different. I wouldn’t
                    have it any other way as you guys seem to really be knowledgeable when it
                    comes to Tengwar.



                    I’m sorry if I came off a bit rude before about the non-response, it wasn’t
                    my intention. I can completely understand the faster response to the easier
                    question ( heck, I end up doing this in my day-to-day work ).



                    Thanks again for the codes! I checked them against my original transcription
                    that I obtained from the transcriber and the last one I had (using Quenya
                    mode ) did indeed match ( what a relief :-) ) …



                    _____

                    From: elfscript@yahoogroups.com [mailto:elfscript@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    Of calwen76
                    Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 5:00 AM
                    To: elfscript@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [elfscript] Re: help required with another tattoo!!!



                    --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "balroghead" wrote:

                    > I also decided to have it in Quenya written in Tengwar.

                    That's the reason why you haven't yet received your answer. Since
                    Robert wants just a transcription because he's used an English
                    sentence, it was much easier and "quicker" to answer him first. This
                    group concerns writing systems, many of its members have no (or very
                    small) knowledge of Professor's languages (I myself have a very
                    little knowledge of Quenya). That's why I'm actually not able to help
                    back concerning the Quenya (translation from English -> Quenya) and
                    that means that the transcription itself might be in principle
                    incorrect in case the translation is incorrect. Do you get my
                    point? :)

                    > I *think* I have it right when I say :
                    > i rína ar morna quén
                    > or
                    > i rína morna quén ( without the "THE" ).

                    Well, I'm not much familiar with Quenya but I still can see the
                    definite article THE in the lattest sentence (_i_) but it lacks the
                    conjuction AND (_ar_). It may be just a slip from your part, huh? :)
                    On the other hand, Tolkien gives us _Moriquendi_ as 'The Dark Elves',
                    literally 'The Dark Ones' and if one supposes to make a singular of
                    this, which would in English yield 'The Dark One', it would BMVHO be
                    *_moriquen_ in Quenya. Concerning the translation, I would rather
                    recommend to contact the Elfling group:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfling

                    > Of course, I could be TOTALLY wrong.
                    > Also, I'm not sure about the transcription tool I'm using, but I
                    > think this is how you would print it:

                    > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/xipetotec1/tengpic.jpg

                    Well, here I can give my two cents...

                    If you're transcribing a Quenya sentence then you have to use
                    Quenya "mode" on the tengscriber. Well, I think there is no need to
                    glut you with information about how the Tengwar works, so here are
                    the "codes" you can copy & paste into your word editor and change the
                    font to a Tengwar font:

                    5^,F 'family' _nosse_
                    `B 7~B5# `C6 t^65# z~V5 'the crowned and dark one' _i rína ar morna
                    quén_ (for omitting the AND _ar_, just withdraw the `C6).

                    But since I am not sure about the Quenya sentence I'd rather
                    recommend to wait for some Elfling help.

                    cal






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                  • worldofbob2001
                    Thanks alot for your help. It is fantastic. Amased at anyone able to do these sorts of things. Languages and letter system confuse and scare me :D Right time
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                      Thanks alot for your help. It is fantastic. Amased at anyone able to
                      do these sorts of things. Languages and letter system confuse and
                      scare me :D

                      Right time to work out the placment of this tattoo :)
                    • worldofbob2001
                      ... Just one last thing. is here any chance of spliting the strings up to the individual words for me please. i know its alot to ask but looking at both codes
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                        --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "calwen76" <calwen.rudh@s...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001"
                        > <worldofbob2001@y...> wrote:
                        > >> `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{6R
                        > >> and
                        > >> `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2È{ w`V `C
                        > >> rzG1t% 5`N jx^{È6

                        Just one last thing. is here any chance of spliting the strings up to
                        the individual words for me please. i know its alot to ask but looking
                        at both codes I see areas that should be the same word but are different.

                        correct me were I go wrong.

                        I = `B
                        Will = yj%°
                        rise = 78%Ê
                        up = qJ
                        above (this is the first problem)w#r^È or w#r^È
                        the = @
                        flames = ejt#È+ or ejt#È+
                        and = 2{or 2È{
                        be = w`V
                        a = `C
                        victim = rzG1t%
                        no = 5`N
                        longer = jx^{È6

                        I notice it seems to occur twice where an È is in the first transciption.

                        Thanks alot again.
                        Robert
                      • calwen76
                        ... transciption. ... _Ê_ is the same as _È_ which is the same as _È_ --- it is just a matter of a text format that is set in one s computer. In Tengwar
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                          --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
                          > I = `B -YES
                          > Will = yj%°
                          > rise = 78%Ê
                          > up = qJ
                          > above (this is the first problem)w#r^È or w#r^È
                          > the = @
                          > flames = ejt#È+ or ejt#È+
                          > and = 2{or 2È{
                          > be = w`V
                          > a = `C
                          > victim = rzG1t%
                          > no = 5`N
                          > longer = jx^{È6
                          >
                          > I notice it seems to occur twice where an È is in the first
                          transciption.
                          >
                          > Thanks alot again.
                          > Robert

                          _Ê_ is the same as _È_ which is the same as _È_ --- it is just a
                          matter of a text format that is set in one's computer. In Tengwar
                          this code means the silent E in words 'risE, abovE, flamEs, longEr'.

                          Lucy
                        • worldofbob2001
                          ... just a ... Ok hopefully this correct. I have redone the script using the code. hopefully this will be correct now and I can book my place in the chair!!!!!
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jan 5, 2006
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                            > _Ê_ is the same as _È_ which is the same as _È_ --- it is
                            just a
                            > matter of a text format that is set in one's computer. In Tengwar
                            > this code means the silent E in words 'risE, abovE, flamEs, longEr'.
                            >
                            > Lucy
                            >

                            Ok hopefully this correct. I have redone the script using the code.
                            hopefully this will be correct now and I can book my place in the
                            chair!!!!!

                            http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=8126re2.jpg&.src=ph


                            Thanks Lucy you've been great.

                            Robert
                          • calwen76
                            ... http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=8 126re2.jpg&.src=ph Ups, that s what I have feared.. the text formats mixed it
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jan 6, 2006
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                              --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
                              > Ok hopefully this correct. I have redone the script using the code.
                              > hopefully this will be correct now and I can book my place in the
                              > chair!!!!!
                              >
                              >
                              http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=8
                              126re2.jpg&.src=ph

                              Ups, that's what I have feared.. the text formats mixed it up... see
                              the correct picture here:

                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/Robert.gif

                              Sorry for the confusion.
                              Lucy
                            • worldofbob2001
                              Hi Lucy I think I have it now!! http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=3b9dre2.jpg Hopefully this is it now. It is bold italics
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jan 6, 2006
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                                Hi Lucy I think I have it now!!

                                http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=3b9dre2.jpg


                                Hopefully this is it now. It is bold italics so I just hope that the
                                way it changes the accents and stuff doesn't affect the meaning (would
                                be a bit of a stupid font if it did!) Still tossing up between regular
                                or bold italic though.
                              • calwen76
                                ... http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=3 b9dre2.jpg ... Hello, well, it shouldn t though the first underdot in the 3rd word
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jan 9, 2006
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                                  --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi Lucy I think I have it now!!
                                  >
                                  >
                                  http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=3
                                  b9dre2.jpg
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Hopefully this is it now. It is bold italics so I just hope that the
                                  > way it changes the accents and stuff doesn't affect the meaning (would
                                  > be a bit of a stupid font if it did!) Still tossing up between regular
                                  > or bold italic though.

                                  Hello,
                                  well, it shouldn't though the first underdot in the 3rd word (rise)
                                  should be more centered under the main tengwa (that reminds kinda an
                                  arabic numeral 6). Actually, all signs (dots, accute accents, triple
                                  dots etc.) have to be centered regarding the tengwa they are under or
                                  above it. Also, the S-hook in _flames_ sould be modified since the
                                  tengwa for M in _flames_ differs in the italic style.

                                  Here is my suggestion:

                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/Robert_italic.gif

                                  Lucy
                                • worldofbob2001
                                  ... Will try my best to alter it but hopeful it should be ok I can alway ask the tattooist to change it for me. Thanks very very much for your help. You have
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jan 10, 2006
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                                    > Hello,
                                    > well, it shouldn't though the first underdot in the 3rd word (rise)
                                    > should be more centered under the main tengwa (that reminds kinda an
                                    > arabic numeral 6). Actually, all signs (dots, accute accents, triple
                                    > dots etc.) have to be centered regarding the tengwa they are under or
                                    > above it. Also, the S-hook in _flames_ sould be modified since the
                                    > tengwa for M in _flames_ differs in the italic style.
                                    >
                                    > Here is my suggestion:
                                    >
                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/Robert_italic.gif
                                    >
                                    > Lucy
                                    >

                                    Will try my best to alter it but hopeful it should be ok I can alway
                                    ask the tattooist to change it for me. Thanks very very much for your
                                    help. You have saved me hours and have allowed me to get the tattoo I
                                    want and not look like a moron cause it's wrong.

                                    One last question. I have been reading the books again and i now
                                    notice that the inscription on the ring on seperates the tengwar where
                                    there is punctuation otherwise it remian as one long string of text.
                                    Would this be the correct way to represent it?
                                  • calwen76
                                    ... Yes, if you read the English version of the text on the One Ring then you know that it is a four-verse poem and the verses are separated by Tengwar
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jan 10, 2006
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                                      --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
                                      > One last question. I have been reading the books again and i now
                                      > notice that the inscription on the ring on seperates the tengwar where
                                      > there is punctuation otherwise it remian as one long string of text.
                                      > Would this be the correct way to represent it?

                                      Yes, if you read the English version of the text on the One Ring then
                                      you know that it is a four-verse poem and the verses are separated by
                                      Tengwar punctuation. That's why I put the triple dots in the beginning
                                      and in the end of the transcription of your sentence here:
                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/Robert_italic.gif

                                      Hope you'll give us a new tattoo of yours feedback :)

                                      Lucy
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