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help required with another tattoo!!!

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  • worldofbob2001
    Firstly I shall apologise to the true Tolkien fans with a geniune interest in the languages and scripts of his world and are getting sick of those like me. I
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 2, 2006
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      Firstly I shall apologise to the true Tolkien fans with a geniune
      interest in the languages and scripts of his world and are getting
      sick of those like me.

      I myself am another tattoos seeker who would appreciate your help.

      Basically I am thinking of getting a tattoo that is a straight
      transciption of english into Tengwar script rather than a translation.
      I know this is the lazy way out but my language skills leave alot to
      be desired as this post will no doubt prove (my english skills are bad
      enough)

      to check the accuracy of the script I would like to know if someone
      could transcribe it back into english. I belive it is in Tengwar Sindarin.

      the link is

      http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=ebb9&.dnm=6147re2.jpg&.src=ph

      Your help would be much appreciated.

      Thanks.

      robert
    • calwen76
      ... Good choice, if I may say. ... The choice is in no way bad either lazy. Tolkien himself left us with much more texts written in English / Tengwar than in
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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        --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
        > Basically I am thinking of getting a tattoo that is a straight
        > transciption of english into Tengwar script rather than a
        > translation.

        Good choice, if I may say.

        > I know this is the lazy way out but my language skills leave alot to
        > be desired as this post will no doubt prove (my english skills are
        > bad enough)

        The choice is in no way bad either lazy. Tolkien himself left us with
        much more texts written in English / Tengwar than in "Elvish" /
        Tengwar.

        > to check the accuracy of the script I would like to know if someone
        > could transcribe it back into english. I belive it is in Tengwar
        > Sindarin.

        The text BMO reads: I will rise up above the flames and be a victim
        no longer.

        The name of the PC Tengwar font doesn't actually make much
        difference.

        However, as usual, the transcriber hasn't made a good job. It
        obviously has ignored silent Es (in 'rise, above, flames'), used a
        tengwa for a plural S (in 'flames') instead of a curl and omitted the
        _ng_ rule.

        So, BMO the transription should be (copy & paste the following "code"
        into your Word Editor and change the font into Tengwar Annatar, if
        you need to have it downloaded:
        http://home.student.uu.se/jowi4905/fonts/annatar.html):

        `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{6R

        The word 'rise' is somehow not clear to me, I can't decide which form
        would be the best, other alternatives could be: 7KBÊ or 7iTË

        Maybe other Elfscripters could help...? :)

        Cheers,
        Lucy
      • j_mach_wust
        ... The first one is fine; the second reads rize and the third one rice . Isn t the transcription of and supposed to have a dot below? I d rather
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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          Lucy wrote:
          > So, BMO the transription should be (copy & paste the following "code"
          > into your Word Editor and change the font into Tengwar Annatar, if
          > you need to have it downloaded:
          > http://home.student.uu.se/jowi4905/fonts/annatar.html):
          >
          > `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{6R
          >
          > The word 'rise' is somehow not clear to me, I can't decide which form
          > would be the best, other alternatives could be: 7KBÊ or 7iTË

          The first one is fine; the second reads "rize" and the third one "rice".

          Isn't the transcription of "and" supposed to have a dot below?

          I'd rather transcribe "longer" with a dot below the G instead of an
          acute above the R.

          ---------------------------
          j. 'mach' wust
          http://machhezan.tripod.com
          ---------------------------
        • calwen76
          ... following code ... if ... form ... one rice . Theoretically (following Tolkien s is transcribed in the DTS 10, or as in DTS 5), the modified esse
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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            --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "j_mach_wust" <j_mach_wust@y...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Lucy wrote:
            > > So, BMO the transription should be (copy & paste the
            following "code"
            > > into your Word Editor and change the font into Tengwar Annatar,
            if
            > > you need to have it downloaded:
            > > http://home.student.uu.se/jowi4905/fonts/annatar.html):
            > >
            > > `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{6R
            > >
            > > The word 'rise' is somehow not clear to me, I can't decide which
            form
            > > would be the best, other alternatives could be: 7KBÊ or 7iTË
            >
            > The first one is fine; the second reads "rize" and the third
            one "rice".

            Theoretically (following Tolkien's 'is' transcribed in the DTS 10,
            or 'as' in DTS 5), the modified esse wouldn't be such a big mistake,
            huh?

            > Isn't the transcription of "and" supposed to have a dot below?

            The samples show both, I guess (DTS 5 x DTS 10).

            > I'd rather transcribe "longer" with a dot below the G instead of an
            > acute above the R.

            Well, I was not quite decided which one to pick... so:

            `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2È{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{È6

            Lucy
          • worldofbob2001
            Well at least it reads what it is meant to. i was worried it might say something like I wear pink knickers or something :D It is getting done on my left arm
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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              Well at least it reads what it is meant to. i was worried it might say
              something like I wear pink knickers or something :D


              It is getting done on my left arm about an inch above the elbow. From
              this i am getting flames tattooed to surrond a tribal style dragon i
              already have.

              thanks loads. You've been great.
            • worldofbob2001
              `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{6R and `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2È{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{È6 Lucy Are both these
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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                `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{6R


                and


                `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2È{ w`V `C rzG1t%
                5`N jx^{È6

                Lucy


                Are both these transcriptions basically correct for the text?

                If so then I'll probably go for the first one as I believe it is more
                suitable for a tattoo due to a decreased character count and
                simplified accents. This will be going on me forever soo naturally you
                can understand my interest in getting this as correct as possible.
                quite impressed that despite problems with the transcription that the
                first example said what I wanted!!!

                Thanks again. I am getting very excited about this now. Should be
                getting it this month. Will post a pic when it's done.
              • worldofbob2001
                Sorry for posting so many time. Espeacially if you get these in your email!!! Jut though I d exlpain a little further the meaning behind the phrase i choose.
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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                  Sorry for posting so many time. Espeacially if you get these in your
                  email!!!

                  Jut though I'd exlpain a little further the meaning behind the phrase
                  i choose. although it may bore most i belive that phrases such as this
                  are pointless without true meaning behind them and tattoos are even
                  more pointless if they don't have some meaning to the person that have
                  them.

                  "i will rise up above the flames and be a victim no longer"

                  Basically I have been through a hard time over the last 7 months. It
                  all started wieith splitting my girlfrnd of 6 years and i went of the
                  rails a little, lost my job and had to return home to Ireland (i was
                  living in wales). This was when I decided to get my first tattoos
                  before I left wales. One was of a 8 point compass like design on my
                  right forearm. this was to represnt the choices now ahead of me and is
                  in a position that I am always reminded of the fact that you are never
                  without choice. The second was the aforementioned dragon. I always
                  meant for it to be surrounded by flame at some point but couldn't work
                  out a good way to terminate the flame above my elbow so it wasn;t just
                  appearing from nowhere. This is when I thought that maybe a tribal
                  band would be a good choice but was relucent because, lets face it,
                  everyone has one.

                  Then while watching fellowship one day I noticed how beautifully
                  suited to a band the script inside the ring was. This is when I though
                  of the phrase to represent a defiance I have now aquired to stop
                  felling sorry for myself in any situation. So as you can see the
                  phrase sums things up quite well and as I hope you'll agree looks
                  beautiful in script.

                  Robert
                • balroghead
                  I think its great to see a kindred spirit tattoo enthusiast. As you may have seen I posted my own questions just before yours. Not really sure why I didn t get
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 3, 2006
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                    I think its great to see a kindred spirit tattoo enthusiast. As you
                    may have seen I posted my own questions just before yours. Not
                    really sure why I didn't get any answers :) ... but anyway, maybe it
                    was my uncertainty.


                    That being said. I myself am going for "the crowned and dark one"
                    OR "the crowned dark one" ... sounds evil right? Except it's the
                    meanings of mine and my wife's name. I also decided to have it in
                    Quenya written in Tengwar.

                    I *think* I have it right when I say :
                    i rína ar morna quén
                    or
                    i rína morna quén ( without the "THE" ).

                    Of course, I could be TOTALLY wrong.
                    Also, I'm not sure about the transcription tool I'm using, but I
                    think this is how you would print it:

                    <a
                    href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/xipetotec1/tengpic.jpg">
                    My Tengwar Translation? </a>



                    --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001"
                    <worldofbob2001@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Sorry for posting so many time. Espeacially if you get these in
                    your
                    > email!!!
                    >
                    > Jut though I'd exlpain a little further the meaning behind the
                    phrase
                    > i choose. although it may bore most i belive that phrases such as
                    this
                    > are pointless without true meaning behind them and tattoos are even
                    > more pointless if they don't have some meaning to the person that
                    have
                    > them.
                    >
                    > "i will rise up above the flames and be a victim no longer"
                    >
                    > Basically I have been through a hard time over the last 7 months.
                    It
                    > all started wieith splitting my girlfrnd of 6 years and i went of
                    the
                    > rails a little, lost my job and had to return home to Ireland (i
                    was
                    > living in wales). This was when I decided to get my first tattoos
                    > before I left wales. One was of a 8 point compass like design on my
                    > right forearm. this was to represnt the choices now ahead of me
                    and is
                    > in a position that I am always reminded of the fact that you are
                    never
                    > without choice. The second was the aforementioned dragon. I always
                    > meant for it to be surrounded by flame at some point but couldn't
                    work
                    > out a good way to terminate the flame above my elbow so it wasn;t
                    just
                    > appearing from nowhere. This is when I thought that maybe a tribal
                    > band would be a good choice but was relucent because, lets face it,
                    > everyone has one.
                    >
                    > Then while watching fellowship one day I noticed how beautifully
                    > suited to a band the script inside the ring was. This is when I
                    though
                    > of the phrase to represent a defiance I have now aquired to stop
                    > felling sorry for myself in any situation. So as you can see the
                    > phrase sums things up quite well and as I hope you'll agree looks
                    > beautiful in script.
                    >
                    > Robert
                    >
                  • calwen76
                    ... That s the reason why you haven t yet received your answer. Since Robert wants just a transcription because he s used an English sentence, it was much
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                      --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "balroghead" wrote:

                      > I also decided to have it in Quenya written in Tengwar.

                      That's the reason why you haven't yet received your answer. Since
                      Robert wants just a transcription because he's used an English
                      sentence, it was much easier and "quicker" to answer him first. This
                      group concerns writing systems, many of its members have no (or very
                      small) knowledge of Professor's languages (I myself have a very
                      little knowledge of Quenya). That's why I'm actually not able to help
                      back concerning the Quenya (translation from English -> Quenya) and
                      that means that the transcription itself might be in principle
                      incorrect in case the translation is incorrect. Do you get my
                      point? :)

                      > I *think* I have it right when I say :
                      > i rína ar morna quén
                      > or
                      > i rína morna quén ( without the "THE" ).

                      Well, I'm not much familiar with Quenya but I still can see the
                      definite article THE in the lattest sentence (_i_) but it lacks the
                      conjuction AND (_ar_). It may be just a slip from your part, huh? :)
                      On the other hand, Tolkien gives us _Moriquendi_ as 'The Dark Elves',
                      literally 'The Dark Ones' and if one supposes to make a singular of
                      this, which would in English yield 'The Dark One', it would BMVHO be
                      *_moriquen_ in Quenya. Concerning the translation, I would rather
                      recommend to contact the Elfling group:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfling

                      > Of course, I could be TOTALLY wrong.
                      > Also, I'm not sure about the transcription tool I'm using, but I
                      > think this is how you would print it:

                      > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/xipetotec1/tengpic.jpg

                      Well, here I can give my two cents...

                      If you're transcribing a Quenya sentence then you have to use
                      Quenya "mode" on the tengscriber. Well, I think there is no need to
                      glut you with information about how the Tengwar works, so here are
                      the "codes" you can copy & paste into your word editor and change the
                      font to a Tengwar font:

                      5^,F 'family' _nosse_
                      `B 7~B5# `C6 t^65# z~V5 'the crowned and dark one' _i rína ar morna
                      quén_ (for omitting the AND _ar_, just withdraw the `C6).

                      But since I am not sure about the Quenya sentence I'd rather
                      recommend to wait for some Elfling help.

                      cal
                    • calwen76
                      ... No, the first one is not transcribed correctly, unlike the latter one. I ll try to draw a difference between those two by English: The first one reads: I
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                        --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001"
                        <worldofbob2001@y...> wrote:
                        >> `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{6R
                        >> and
                        >> `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2È{ w`V `C
                        >> rzG1t% 5`N jx^{È6
                        >
                        > Are both these transcriptions basically correct for the text?

                        No, the first one is not transcribed correctly, unlike the latter one.

                        I'll try to draw a difference between those two by English:

                        The first one reads: "I will rize up above the flames and be a victim
                        no longair." (it is not literally so with the word "longair" but
                        approximately designed for this purpose of distinction), and the
                        second one reads: "I will rise up above the flames and be a victim no
                        longer." So, I think there is no hard decision to make...

                        Lucy

                        One more thing: the transcriber makes obvious mistakes that we who
                        are more familiar with Tengwar can quite easily find and since we are
                        using our brain cells (:]) we are able to deduce what is the
                        transcription supposed to say... so it is not like that the
                        transcriber didn't do many errors, rather on the contrary.
                      • Stephane Morrell
                        That’s great. I will definitely check into that group and report back here for proper transcriptions if the sentence should be different. I wouldn’t have
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                          That’s great. I will definitely check into that group and report back here
                          for proper transcriptions if the sentence should be different. I wouldn’t
                          have it any other way as you guys seem to really be knowledgeable when it
                          comes to Tengwar.



                          I’m sorry if I came off a bit rude before about the non-response, it wasn’t
                          my intention. I can completely understand the faster response to the easier
                          question ( heck, I end up doing this in my day-to-day work ).



                          Thanks again for the codes! I checked them against my original transcription
                          that I obtained from the transcriber and the last one I had (using Quenya
                          mode ) did indeed match ( what a relief :-) ) …



                          _____

                          From: elfscript@yahoogroups.com [mailto:elfscript@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                          Of calwen76
                          Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 5:00 AM
                          To: elfscript@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [elfscript] Re: help required with another tattoo!!!



                          --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "balroghead" wrote:

                          > I also decided to have it in Quenya written in Tengwar.

                          That's the reason why you haven't yet received your answer. Since
                          Robert wants just a transcription because he's used an English
                          sentence, it was much easier and "quicker" to answer him first. This
                          group concerns writing systems, many of its members have no (or very
                          small) knowledge of Professor's languages (I myself have a very
                          little knowledge of Quenya). That's why I'm actually not able to help
                          back concerning the Quenya (translation from English -> Quenya) and
                          that means that the transcription itself might be in principle
                          incorrect in case the translation is incorrect. Do you get my
                          point? :)

                          > I *think* I have it right when I say :
                          > i rína ar morna quén
                          > or
                          > i rína morna quén ( without the "THE" ).

                          Well, I'm not much familiar with Quenya but I still can see the
                          definite article THE in the lattest sentence (_i_) but it lacks the
                          conjuction AND (_ar_). It may be just a slip from your part, huh? :)
                          On the other hand, Tolkien gives us _Moriquendi_ as 'The Dark Elves',
                          literally 'The Dark Ones' and if one supposes to make a singular of
                          this, which would in English yield 'The Dark One', it would BMVHO be
                          *_moriquen_ in Quenya. Concerning the translation, I would rather
                          recommend to contact the Elfling group:
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfling

                          > Of course, I could be TOTALLY wrong.
                          > Also, I'm not sure about the transcription tool I'm using, but I
                          > think this is how you would print it:

                          > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/xipetotec1/tengpic.jpg

                          Well, here I can give my two cents...

                          If you're transcribing a Quenya sentence then you have to use
                          Quenya "mode" on the tengscriber. Well, I think there is no need to
                          glut you with information about how the Tengwar works, so here are
                          the "codes" you can copy & paste into your word editor and change the
                          font to a Tengwar font:

                          5^,F 'family' _nosse_
                          `B 7~B5# `C6 t^65# z~V5 'the crowned and dark one' _i rína ar morna
                          quén_ (for omitting the AND _ar_, just withdraw the `C6).

                          But since I am not sure about the Quenya sentence I'd rather
                          recommend to wait for some Elfling help.

                          cal






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                        • worldofbob2001
                          Thanks alot for your help. It is fantastic. Amased at anyone able to do these sorts of things. Languages and letter system confuse and scare me :D Right time
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                            Thanks alot for your help. It is fantastic. Amased at anyone able to
                            do these sorts of things. Languages and letter system confuse and
                            scare me :D

                            Right time to work out the placment of this tattoo :)
                          • worldofbob2001
                            ... Just one last thing. is here any chance of spliting the strings up to the individual words for me please. i know its alot to ask but looking at both codes
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                              --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "calwen76" <calwen.rudh@s...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001"
                              > <worldofbob2001@y...> wrote:
                              > >> `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2{ w`V `C rzG1t% 5`N jx^{6R
                              > >> and
                              > >> `B yj%° 78%Ê qJ w#r^È @ ejt#È+ 2È{ w`V `C
                              > >> rzG1t% 5`N jx^{È6

                              Just one last thing. is here any chance of spliting the strings up to
                              the individual words for me please. i know its alot to ask but looking
                              at both codes I see areas that should be the same word but are different.

                              correct me were I go wrong.

                              I = `B
                              Will = yj%°
                              rise = 78%Ê
                              up = qJ
                              above (this is the first problem)w#r^È or w#r^È
                              the = @
                              flames = ejt#È+ or ejt#È+
                              and = 2{or 2È{
                              be = w`V
                              a = `C
                              victim = rzG1t%
                              no = 5`N
                              longer = jx^{È6

                              I notice it seems to occur twice where an È is in the first transciption.

                              Thanks alot again.
                              Robert
                            • calwen76
                              ... transciption. ... _Ê_ is the same as _È_ which is the same as _È_ --- it is just a matter of a text format that is set in one s computer. In Tengwar
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jan 4, 2006
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                                --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
                                > I = `B -YES
                                > Will = yj%°
                                > rise = 78%Ê
                                > up = qJ
                                > above (this is the first problem)w#r^È or w#r^È
                                > the = @
                                > flames = ejt#È+ or ejt#È+
                                > and = 2{or 2È{
                                > be = w`V
                                > a = `C
                                > victim = rzG1t%
                                > no = 5`N
                                > longer = jx^{È6
                                >
                                > I notice it seems to occur twice where an È is in the first
                                transciption.
                                >
                                > Thanks alot again.
                                > Robert

                                _Ê_ is the same as _È_ which is the same as _È_ --- it is just a
                                matter of a text format that is set in one's computer. In Tengwar
                                this code means the silent E in words 'risE, abovE, flamEs, longEr'.

                                Lucy
                              • worldofbob2001
                                ... just a ... Ok hopefully this correct. I have redone the script using the code. hopefully this will be correct now and I can book my place in the chair!!!!!
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jan 5, 2006
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                                  > _Ê_ is the same as _È_ which is the same as _È_ --- it is
                                  just a
                                  > matter of a text format that is set in one's computer. In Tengwar
                                  > this code means the silent E in words 'risE, abovE, flamEs, longEr'.
                                  >
                                  > Lucy
                                  >

                                  Ok hopefully this correct. I have redone the script using the code.
                                  hopefully this will be correct now and I can book my place in the
                                  chair!!!!!

                                  http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=8126re2.jpg&.src=ph


                                  Thanks Lucy you've been great.

                                  Robert
                                • calwen76
                                  ... http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=8 126re2.jpg&.src=ph Ups, that s what I have feared.. the text formats mixed it
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jan 6, 2006
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                                    --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
                                    > Ok hopefully this correct. I have redone the script using the code.
                                    > hopefully this will be correct now and I can book my place in the
                                    > chair!!!!!
                                    >
                                    >
                                    http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=8
                                    126re2.jpg&.src=ph

                                    Ups, that's what I have feared.. the text formats mixed it up... see
                                    the correct picture here:

                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/Robert.gif

                                    Sorry for the confusion.
                                    Lucy
                                  • worldofbob2001
                                    Hi Lucy I think I have it now!! http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=3b9dre2.jpg Hopefully this is it now. It is bold italics
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jan 6, 2006
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                                      Hi Lucy I think I have it now!!

                                      http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=3b9dre2.jpg


                                      Hopefully this is it now. It is bold italics so I just hope that the
                                      way it changes the accents and stuff doesn't affect the meaning (would
                                      be a bit of a stupid font if it did!) Still tossing up between regular
                                      or bold italic though.
                                    • calwen76
                                      ... http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=3 b9dre2.jpg ... Hello, well, it shouldn t though the first underdot in the 3rd word
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jan 9, 2006
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                                        --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Hi Lucy I think I have it now!!
                                        >
                                        >
                                        http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/worldofbob2001/detail?.dir=/ebb9&.dnm=3
                                        b9dre2.jpg
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Hopefully this is it now. It is bold italics so I just hope that the
                                        > way it changes the accents and stuff doesn't affect the meaning (would
                                        > be a bit of a stupid font if it did!) Still tossing up between regular
                                        > or bold italic though.

                                        Hello,
                                        well, it shouldn't though the first underdot in the 3rd word (rise)
                                        should be more centered under the main tengwa (that reminds kinda an
                                        arabic numeral 6). Actually, all signs (dots, accute accents, triple
                                        dots etc.) have to be centered regarding the tengwa they are under or
                                        above it. Also, the S-hook in _flames_ sould be modified since the
                                        tengwa for M in _flames_ differs in the italic style.

                                        Here is my suggestion:

                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/Robert_italic.gif

                                        Lucy
                                      • worldofbob2001
                                        ... Will try my best to alter it but hopeful it should be ok I can alway ask the tattooist to change it for me. Thanks very very much for your help. You have
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jan 10, 2006
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                                          > Hello,
                                          > well, it shouldn't though the first underdot in the 3rd word (rise)
                                          > should be more centered under the main tengwa (that reminds kinda an
                                          > arabic numeral 6). Actually, all signs (dots, accute accents, triple
                                          > dots etc.) have to be centered regarding the tengwa they are under or
                                          > above it. Also, the S-hook in _flames_ sould be modified since the
                                          > tengwa for M in _flames_ differs in the italic style.
                                          >
                                          > Here is my suggestion:
                                          >
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/Robert_italic.gif
                                          >
                                          > Lucy
                                          >

                                          Will try my best to alter it but hopeful it should be ok I can alway
                                          ask the tattooist to change it for me. Thanks very very much for your
                                          help. You have saved me hours and have allowed me to get the tattoo I
                                          want and not look like a moron cause it's wrong.

                                          One last question. I have been reading the books again and i now
                                          notice that the inscription on the ring on seperates the tengwar where
                                          there is punctuation otherwise it remian as one long string of text.
                                          Would this be the correct way to represent it?
                                        • calwen76
                                          ... Yes, if you read the English version of the text on the One Ring then you know that it is a four-verse poem and the verses are separated by Tengwar
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jan 10, 2006
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                                            --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "worldofbob2001" wrote:
                                            > One last question. I have been reading the books again and i now
                                            > notice that the inscription on the ring on seperates the tengwar where
                                            > there is punctuation otherwise it remian as one long string of text.
                                            > Would this be the correct way to represent it?

                                            Yes, if you read the English version of the text on the One Ring then
                                            you know that it is a four-verse poem and the verses are separated by
                                            Tengwar punctuation. That's why I put the triple dots in the beginning
                                            and in the end of the transcription of your sentence here:
                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/Robert_italic.gif

                                            Hope you'll give us a new tattoo of yours feedback :)

                                            Lucy
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