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Re: A Elbereth

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  • i_degilbor
    ... Elbereth ... by ... ebay or ... Here is Tolkien s calligraphic tengwar rendering of A Elbereth :
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 19, 2005
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      Teithant David J. Finnamore:

      > --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "j_mach_wust" <j_mach_wust@y...>
      wrote:

      > > Fortunately, Tolkien himself left us a transcription of "A
      Elbereth"
      > > (in the mode of Beleriand) together with the poems set to music
      by
      > > Donald Swann.
      >
      > Thanks for the pointer. I'll see if I can russel up a copy on
      ebay or
      > something.

      Here is Tolkien's calligraphic tengwar rendering of 'A Elbereth':


      http://pic6.picturetrail.com/VOL164/1356691/5803627/122340787.jpg

      The tehtar and punctuation marks are higher than they should be.
      That's how they appeared in the original edition of 'The Road Goes
      Ever On'.

      Cuio mae, Danny.
    • David J. Finnamore
      Well, it s been nice chatting with you gentlemen. Guess I ve got some homework to do. When I come back some of my newbie smell will be gone, hopefully.
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 20, 2005
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        Well, it's been nice chatting with you gentlemen. Guess I've got some
        homework to do. When I come back some of my newbie smell will be
        gone, hopefully.

        --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "j_mach_wust" <j_mach_wust@y...> wrote:
        > Pretty much so. Go for the page of Måns Björkman, Amanye Tenceli:
        >
        > http://at.mansbjorkman.net/
        >
        > The tengwar guides by Per Lindberg are also a very good source:
        >
        > http://www.forodrim.org/daeron/md_teng_primers.html
        >
        > Very good information on some often neglected tengwar texts (the
        > English full writing modes that make up a more important part than any
        > Middle Earth language texts among Tolkien's tengwar texts) is to be
        > found at Ronald Kyrmse's site:
        >
        > http://www.geocities.com/otsoandor/FTMME.htm
        >
        > That's about it — well, don't forget the Mellonath Daeron Index of
        > tengwar specimina I've already mentioned:
        >
        > http://www.forodrim.org/daeron/mdtci.html
        >
        > ---------------------------
        > j. 'mach' wust
        > http://machhezan.tripod.com
        > ---------------------------
        >
      • David J. Finnamore
        ... Oh, thank you, thank you, Danny! BTW, I drooled embarrassingly over your web pages of elvish calligraphy. I can never hope to be that good, but it s
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 20, 2005
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          --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "i_degilbor"
          <Uialdil_i_degilbor@m...> wrote:
          > Here is Tolkien's calligraphic tengwar rendering of 'A Elbereth':
          >
          >
          > http://pic6.picturetrail.com/VOL164/1356691/5803627/122340787.jpg
          >
          > The tehtar and punctuation marks are higher than they should be.
          > That's how they appeared in the original edition of 'The Road Goes
          > Ever On'.
          >
          > Cuio mae, Danny.
          >

          Oh, thank you, thank you, Danny!

          BTW, I drooled embarrassingly over your web pages of elvish
          calligraphy. I can never hope to be that good, but it's exactly the
          sort of thing I'm picturing in my mind for the A Elbereth manuscript,
          esp andries_adarnin.jpg. That look with enough space between lines to
          add neumes. Aaaaghhghhh like Homer Simpson over a carmel baloney
          sandwich. Or better, like Sam G over a pot of stewed coneys WITH
          smelly leaves.
        • Palatinus
          ... Since you are talking with the General USe tehtar mode, I think that Lindberg is correct here. The line underneath AFAIK is used in cases other than
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 21, 2005
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            > combinations. For example, Per Lindberg recommends
            > placing a line
            > above 17 for the double n of Ennorath, while the
            > page
            > http://www.geocities.com/therealteng/guide.html
            > shows 17 with a line

            Since you are talking with the 'General USe' tehtar
            mode, I think that Lindberg is correct here. The line
            underneath AFAIK is used in cases other than nasals

            > underneath. Tolkien seems to leave open the option
            > of using 21 and 22
            > for n and m, but I've never seen it done in
            > practice. I kind of like
            > that, and tried it for a while.

            This applies to Mode of Beleriand

            > The most "authentic" approach would depend on what
            > era and location
            > the manuscript is supposed to be from, right? Let's

            yes, if you like to have some 'fan fiction' backstory
            behind your manuscript, as many like to do in
            Gwaith-i-phethdain sebsite.

            > assume it was
            > made at Imladris, middle Third Age, since we don't
            > know whether the
            > Hall of Fire version of /A Elbereth/ is much older
            > than that (do we?).
            > Am I right that it would use the so called mode of
            > Gondor, with tehta
            > vowels? Any other pointers?

            i have the impression that many, or most, consider the
            Sindarin tehtar modes to be invented by Men. If that's
            correct, the only authentic ELvish Sindarin mode
            known, is the Beleriandic one.

            It's a complicated subject, and there have been some
            recent publishing concerning the 'General Use'. I'd
            like to hear other opinions about this.






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          • David J. Finnamore
            ... [snip] Thanks, Palatinus. After studying the version of /A Elbereth/ that Danny sent (http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/message/5057), made
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 21, 2005
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              --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Palatinus <elfiness@y...> wrote:
              >
              > > combinations. For example, Per Lindberg recommends
              > > placing a line
              > > above 17 for the double n of Ennorath, while the
              > > page
              > > http://www.geocities.com/therealteng/guide.html
              > > shows 17 with a line
              >
              > Since you are talking with the 'General USe' tehtar
              > mode, I think that Lindberg is correct here. The line
              > underneath AFAIK is used in cases other than nasals
              >
              > > underneath. Tolkien seems to leave open the option
              > > of using 21 and 22
              > > for n and m, but I've never seen it done in
              > > practice. I kind of like
              > > that, and tried it for a while.
              >
              > This applies to Mode of Beleriand
              >
              [snip]

              Thanks, Palatinus. After studying the version of /A Elbereth/ that
              Danny sent (http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/message/5057),
              made by Tolkien himself in the mode used at Imladris, I'm delighted to
              find that it exhibits some of the tendencies I was already developing,
              aside from the major difference of not using tehtar. The left swoop
              under "g", the left curl at the top of "th" and "f", the ways adjacent
              letters are sometimes connected, that sort of thing. I'm a little
              disappointed at having to go with writing out vowels but I'm getting
              used to it. I may have to embellish my melody to keep it from looking
              too sparse above all those characters! :-)

              David "Daeron" Finnamore
              www.elvenminstrel.com
            • Helge K. Fauskanger
              ... the subtitle of the poem is given as Aerlinn in edhil o Imladris (translated by Helge Fauskanger as * Hymn of the Elves of Rivendell ). Yes, it must be
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 21, 2005
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                Viktor Epp wrote:

                > This is in fact supported by the text itself: In RGEO:70 (and back cover)
                the subtitle of the poem is given as "Aerlinn in edhil o Imladris"
                (translated by Helge Fauskanger as *"Hymn of the Elves of Rivendell").

                Yes, it must be either "hymn" (aer-linn = holy-song) OR "sea-song", if
                _aer_ here represents _aear_.

                - HKF
              • David J. Finnamore
                ... cover) ... Well, it s not a sea-song, so it must be a holy song. The sea is mentioned, but only geographically. A longer version of it was sung by
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 23, 2005
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                  --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Helge K. Fauskanger"
                  <helge.fauskanger@n...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Viktor Epp wrote:
                  >
                  > > This is in fact supported by the text itself: In RGEO:70 (and back
                  cover)
                  > the subtitle of the poem is given as "Aerlinn in edhil o Imladris"
                  > (translated by Helge Fauskanger as *"Hymn of the Elves of Rivendell").
                  >
                  > Yes, it must be either "hymn" (aer-linn = holy-song) OR "sea-song", if
                  > _aer_ here represents _aear_.
                  >
                  > - HKF
                  >

                  Well, it's not a sea-song, so it must be a holy song. The sea is
                  mentioned, but only geographically. A longer version of it was sung
                  by Gildor's folk while walking at night under the trees and stars,
                  which are also mentioned in the text. Too bad it's only given in
                  English there. Formally, it's quite clearly a hymn, in the historical
                  meaning of the term: a song of praise.

                  David "Daeron" Finnamore
                  www.elvenminstrel.com
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