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Θέμα: [elfscript] Beleriand mode

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  • Palatinus
    ... Hi David. I doubt you remember me... a few years ago we exchanged some mails about music. Doesn t matter, I remember and I am happy to hear from you again
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 17, 2005
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      > Hello, all,
      >
      > I'm a long-time Tolkien fan. Many of you have
      > probably visited my
      > website about music for Middle-earth. Just joined

      Hi David.

      I doubt you remember me... a few years ago we
      exchanged some mails about music. Doesn't matter, I
      remember and I am happy to hear from you again ;)

      > I have a page about the name Daeron which includes a
      > graphic of it
      > spelled with Cirth, and another spelled with tengwar
      > and tehtar. As I
      > understand it, if Daeron of Doriath had written his
      > name in ink, it
      > would have been in the mode of Beleriand using
      > tengwar for vowels. Is

      If we go according to strict history, I doubt that
      Daeron would write or even know tengwar. Some texts
      say that the runes were based on tengwar, but others
      say that they were invented before the Exile of the
      Noldor. But all this doesn't matter if you simply WANT
      the name written in MoB.

      > that correct? Would someone be so kind as to
      > confirm that I have it
      > right?

      It seems correct to me. At least it doesn't contradict
      any known rules






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    • David J. Finnamore
      Thank you, Palatinus! I m probably showing my ignorance, here, but there doesn t appear to be any conflict between the idea that the tengwar were invented
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 18, 2005
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        Thank you, Palatinus!

        I'm probably showing my ignorance, here, but there doesn't appear to
        be any conflict between the idea that the tengwar were invented prior
        to the exile, and the idea that the cirth were based on them. In the
        case of either or both, they could have been used by the Noldor in
        Beleriand. Clearly they were used by somebody in Beleriand or there
        would be no Beleriand mode. Why would we suppose that Thingol's
        courtiers would be ignorant of the manner of writing of surrounding
        people groups, whether they be elf, dwarf, or man? Does it say
        somewhere that the Grey Elves wrote by engraving but didn't write on
        parchment or whatever? I've read /The Silmarillion/ a few times, and
        the /Unfinished Tales/ a couple times. I don't remember anything that
        specific about the history of writing practices. Where do find out
        that kind of stuff?

        --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Palatinus <elfiness@y...> wrote:
        >
        > > Hello, all,
        > >
        > > I'm a long-time Tolkien fan. Many of you have
        > > probably visited my
        > > website about music for Middle-earth. Just joined
        >
        > Hi David.
        >
        > I doubt you remember me... a few years ago we
        > exchanged some mails about music. Doesn't matter, I
        > remember and I am happy to hear from you again ;)
        >
        > > I have a page about the name Daeron which includes a
        > > graphic of it
        > > spelled with Cirth, and another spelled with tengwar
        > > and tehtar. As I
        > > understand it, if Daeron of Doriath had written his
        > > name in ink, it
        > > would have been in the mode of Beleriand using
        > > tengwar for vowels. Is
        >
        > If we go according to strict history, I doubt that
        > Daeron would write or even know tengwar. Some texts
        > say that the runes were based on tengwar, but others
        > say that they were invented before the Exile of the
        > Noldor. But all this doesn't matter if you simply WANT
        > the name written in MoB.
        >
        > > that correct? Would someone be so kind as to
        > > confirm that I have it
        > > right?
        >
        > It seems correct to me. At least it doesn't contradict
        > any known rules
        >
      • Palatinus
        ... The Grey Annals, or the Annals of Aman say that the runes were invented before the Exile. ... Yes, but by the Noldor :) I have always thought that it s
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 19, 2005
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          > I'm probably showing my ignorance, here, but there
          > doesn't appear to
          > be any conflict between the idea that the tengwar
          > were invented prior
          > to the exile, and the idea that the cirth were based
          > on them. In the

          The Grey Annals, or the Annals of Aman say that the
          runes were invented before the Exile.

          > case of either or both, they could have been used by
          > the Noldor in
          > Beleriand. Clearly they were used by somebody in
          > Beleriand or there
          > would be no Beleriand mode. Why would we suppose

          Yes, but by the Noldor :) I have always thought that
          it's called 'of Beleriand' because it started to
          develop after the Exile, in Beleriand

          > that Thingol's
          > courtiers would be ignorant of the manner of writing
          > of surrounding
          > people groups, whether they be elf, dwarf, or man?
          > Does it say
          > somewhere that the Grey Elves wrote by engraving but
          > didn't write on
          > parchment or whatever? I've read /The Silmarillion/

          I don't see any indication that the Sindar *did not*
          write in tengwar, but I take in account that Thingol
          banned the usage of Quenya in his kingdom. It's only
          logical to believe that he wouldn't make an exception
          on the matter of writing.

          What is for sure, is that the Grey Annals were writen
          in Runes.

          > Where do find out
          > that kind of stuff?

          HoMe






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        • David J. Finnamore
          ... Well, then, I guess it s time for Daeron to go HoMe. First I ve got to get those blasted movie images out of my mind to be sure I end up in the Tolkiens
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 20, 2005
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            --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Palatinus <elfiness@y...> wrote:
            > > Where do find out
            > > that kind of stuff?
            >
            > HoMe

            Well, then, I guess it's time for Daeron to go HoMe. First I've got
            to get those blasted movie images out of my mind to be sure I end up
            in the Tolkiens' M-e, not Jackson's. Then click my heels together
            three times and say... no, wait, that was another story.

            OK, JIC. There's no place like HoMe, there's no place like...
          • Palatinus
            ... If you want my opinion, Jackson s M-e is different from Tolkien s only in story and facts. I don t think that visually the movies differ much from the M-e
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 21, 2005
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              > Well, then, I guess it's time for Daeron to go HoMe.
              > First I've got
              > to get those blasted movie images out of my mind to
              > be sure I end up
              > in the Tolkiens' M-e, not Jackson's. Then click my

              If you want my opinion, Jackson's M-e is different
              from Tolkien's only in story and facts. I don't think
              that visually the movies differ much from the M-e we
              all have in our minds (mostly inspired by Lee's and
              Howe's drawings)






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            • David J. Finnamore
              ... I think you re right. I ll reply direct since this is getting a little OT.
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 21, 2005
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                --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Palatinus <elfiness@y...> wrote:
                >
                > > Well, then, I guess it's time for Daeron to go HoMe.
                > > First I've got
                > > to get those blasted movie images out of my mind to
                > > be sure I end up
                > > in the Tolkiens' M-e, not Jackson's. Then click my
                >
                > If you want my opinion, Jackson's M-e is different
                > from Tolkien's only in story and facts. I don't think
                > that visually the movies differ much from the M-e we
                > all have in our minds (mostly inspired by Lee's and
                > Howe's drawings)
                >

                I think you're right. I'll reply direct since this is getting a
                little OT.
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