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Re: [elfscript] Poem Translation

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  • Helge K. Fauskanger
    ... short. I m trying to translate the first paragraph of Robert Burns 1792 Poem. Ye Bonie Lesley . Aha... ... Well, you ve clearly been spending some time
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 13, 2005
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      > Hello from Norther Onatriao Canada. I"m going to make a long storry
      short. I'm trying to translate the first paragraph of Robert Burns' 1792
      Poem. "Ye Bonie Lesley".

      Aha...

      > Then below that what I have in Quenya.

      Well, you've clearly been spending some time with a wordlist.

      > To see her is to love her,
      Anna cen rya na anna mel rya,

      _Anna_ means "gift". _Ana_ is "to" as a preposition, not as an infinitive
      marker. As for _-rya_, it is "her" as a pronominal possessive suffix "(of)
      her", not "her" as the object form of "she". And so on. A wordlist is not
      enough; one has to know a little grammar as well.

      Suggestion:

      _Cenitas melitas ná_ (Seeing-her loving-her is)
      _ar melita er se tennoio._ (and loving only her forever)
      _An Eä se-carne ya nás_ (For [the] Universe her-made [that] which she-is)
      _Ar úvas oi cárina exe!_ (And she-will-not-be ever made [an]other!)

      _Cárina_ "made" can also have the short form _carna_. Notice that the
      Quenya pronouns do not show gender, and one might just as well read "him"
      and "he" for "her" and "she". (Same principle in Finnish.)

      Ed "Laurifindil" Kloczko will now inform everyone that I am not Tolkien
      reincarnated (quite uncontroversial, since I was born two years before
      Tolkien died), and that this is just some kind of "word-code" of my own
      making. To me, a "word-code" would rather be something like the original
      translation attempt we were offered here, but Ed is of course entitled to
      his opinion.

      The name-translations may be more or less plausible, but i don't think the
      Eldar would call a person "Meadow-land", even if this is the meaning of
      "Lesley". Well, do what you want.

      - HKF
    • funnywopp
      Thank you very much. But Thomas Ferencz from elfling has helped me with the translation already. And the meaning is similiar in effect to the one you
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 14, 2005
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        Thank you very much. But Thomas Ferencz from elfling has helped me
        with the translation already. And the meaning is similiar in effect
        to the one you offered. However when I posted my first posting here
        I hadn't realized I had the wrong place. I understand now that this
        message board is mostly concerned with the translations into
        script. Hence, elfscript. Yeah, dumb move on my part. I have used
        the basic Quenya font to come up with the following. Now that i'm
        in the right place, i can ask the right question. If someone could
        check my work concerning my SCRIPT, then I will be done. And I can
        surprise my wife for her Birthday.
        Thanks in advance.
        Mark

         To see her is to love her,

        > And love but her forever:

        > For nature made her what she is,

        > And never made another!

        Cenitas imya ve melitas
        seeing-her [is] same as loving-her

        Ar mele er erye tennoio
        and to love only her forever

        An Ea acáries yenna narye
        for the World has-made-her into-that she-is

        Ar ullume carne enta
        And never made another

        *yenna: cf. yenna "to which" VT47:2


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      • hisilome
        ... effect to the one you offered.
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 14, 2005
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          --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "funnywopp" <funnywopp@y...> wrote:
          > Thank you very much. But Thomas Ferencz from elfling has helped me
          > with the translation already. And the meaning is similiar in
          effect > to the one you offered.>

          <<<<<<Well, obviously, since they're both translations of the same
          four lines! :)
          In my very humble opinion, in this case I'd personally rather go for
          Helge's version, though. Seems to me it has fewer "dubious"
          features...I'm not quite sure where _imya_ comes from, or what it
          means, for example, or whether it's even necessary in the sentence
          (I'd love to stand corrected by Atwe!). Maybe related to the entries
          under IMI(1) in the Qenya Lexicon?

          I'm not sure about _er erye_ either. The Etymologies have _er_,
          glossed "one, alone", and _erya_, "single, sole", both under ERE.

          And one other thing: I'm not so comfortable with using _ullume_
          for "never". In his own translation of Firiel's Song, where the word
          occurs, Tolkien renders it as "not...for ever", which is really not
          quite the same (if it was "not...ever", that would be a different
          matter).>>>>>>

          Hisilome

          > Cenitas imya ve melitas
          > seeing-her [is] same as loving-her
          >
          > Ar mele er erye tennoio
          > and to love only her forever
          >
          > An Ea acáries yenna narye
          > for the World has-made-her into-that she-is
          >
          > Ar ullume carne enta
          > And never made another
          >
          > *yenna: cf. yenna "to which" VT47:2
          >
          >
        • Gaerind Gwingechil
          Hi, Hisilome wrote referring to my suggested translation to funnywop s Burns poem over on elfling: In my very humble opinion, in this case I d personally
          Message 4 of 5 , Sep 16, 2005
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            Hi,

            Hisilome wrote referring to my suggested translation
            to funnywop's Burns poem over on elfling:

            "
            In my very humble opinion, in this case I'd personally
            rather go for
            Helge's version, though. Seems to me it has fewer
            "dubious"
            features...I'm not quite sure where _imya_ comes from,
            or what it
            means

            ** it means "same" as an adjective, from VT47

            , for example, or whether it's even necessary in the
            sentence

            ** that's up to debate of course; not necessary in the
            English original, quite necessary in my own tongue and
            may be unncessary in (Neo)Quenya.

            (I'd love to stand corrected by Atwe!). Maybe related
            to the entries
            under IMI(1) in the Qenya Lexicon?

            I'm not sure about _er erye_ either. The Etymologies
            have _er_,
            glossed "one, alone", and _erya_, "single, sole", both
            under ERE.

            ** erye should've been asterisked by me, as it is
            unattested long independent 3rd pers pronoun (her)
            modelled on _elye_. Sorry for that.


            And one other thing: I'm not so comfortable with using
            _ullume_
            for "never". In his own translation of Firiel's Song,
            where the word
            occurs, Tolkien renders it as "not...for ever", which
            is really not
            quite the same (if it was "not...ever", that would be
            a different
            matter).

            ** true, but I think Tolkien's translation may be
            taken as poetic, and _ullume_ fits quite well to the
            pattern of _sillumello_, _illume_ etc.

            By,

            Atwe

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