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Poem Translation

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  • funnywopp
    Hello from Norther Onatriao Canada. I m going to make a long storry short. I m trying to translate the first paragraph of Robert Burns 1792 Poem. Ye Bonie
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 10, 2005
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      Hello from Norther Onatriao Canada. I"m going to make a long storry
      short. I'm trying to translate the first paragraph of Robert Burns'
      1792 Poem. "Ye Bonie Lesley". My wifes name is lesley. She has
      beautiful celtic tatoos's and I would love to get a tatoo to shar
      with her. The site http://www.geocities.com/therealteng/guide.html
      has given me great advice. And this is the next step. "Check with
      others." If some one could check over what I have done it would be
      absolutly great and much appreciated. Below will be the poem with
      what i had to change with the aid of a thesauras in (brackets).
      Then below that what I have in Quenya. Sindarin proved to be much
      too difficult. Also will be my name (mark) and my wive's,
      (Lesley). Although I have been on the internet for over ten years
      this is the first discussion group I have ever written on. Thank
      you in advance. If you wish you can mail me at funnywopp@...
      for anything else.

      To see her is to love her,
      Anna cen rya na anna mel rya,

      And love but her forever:
      Ar mel er rya oirë

      For nature made her what she is,
      An ëa carnë Rya mana ni na

      And never(By no mean )became( next to no mean) made another! (more)
      Ar ento anna la facia carnë Lil !

      LESLEY (m. & f.) - Old Eng. 'meadow-land'; salque "grass", -
      ndor "land", so Salquendor; the name is more likely to be derived
      from LESSLYN (q.v.)

      MARK, MARCUS (m.) - probably connected with 'Mars'; Carnil "Mars",
      thus could be Carnildo or Carnilmo or others; someone suggested also
      Marcarnildo

      Thanks again.
      Mark
    • Helge K. Fauskanger
      ... short. I m trying to translate the first paragraph of Robert Burns 1792 Poem. Ye Bonie Lesley . Aha... ... Well, you ve clearly been spending some time
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 13, 2005
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        > Hello from Norther Onatriao Canada. I"m going to make a long storry
        short. I'm trying to translate the first paragraph of Robert Burns' 1792
        Poem. "Ye Bonie Lesley".

        Aha...

        > Then below that what I have in Quenya.

        Well, you've clearly been spending some time with a wordlist.

        > To see her is to love her,
        Anna cen rya na anna mel rya,

        _Anna_ means "gift". _Ana_ is "to" as a preposition, not as an infinitive
        marker. As for _-rya_, it is "her" as a pronominal possessive suffix "(of)
        her", not "her" as the object form of "she". And so on. A wordlist is not
        enough; one has to know a little grammar as well.

        Suggestion:

        _Cenitas melitas ná_ (Seeing-her loving-her is)
        _ar melita er se tennoio._ (and loving only her forever)
        _An Eä se-carne ya nás_ (For [the] Universe her-made [that] which she-is)
        _Ar úvas oi cárina exe!_ (And she-will-not-be ever made [an]other!)

        _Cárina_ "made" can also have the short form _carna_. Notice that the
        Quenya pronouns do not show gender, and one might just as well read "him"
        and "he" for "her" and "she". (Same principle in Finnish.)

        Ed "Laurifindil" Kloczko will now inform everyone that I am not Tolkien
        reincarnated (quite uncontroversial, since I was born two years before
        Tolkien died), and that this is just some kind of "word-code" of my own
        making. To me, a "word-code" would rather be something like the original
        translation attempt we were offered here, but Ed is of course entitled to
        his opinion.

        The name-translations may be more or less plausible, but i don't think the
        Eldar would call a person "Meadow-land", even if this is the meaning of
        "Lesley". Well, do what you want.

        - HKF
      • funnywopp
        Thank you very much. But Thomas Ferencz from elfling has helped me with the translation already. And the meaning is similiar in effect to the one you
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 14, 2005
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          Thank you very much. But Thomas Ferencz from elfling has helped me
          with the translation already. And the meaning is similiar in effect
          to the one you offered. However when I posted my first posting here
          I hadn't realized I had the wrong place. I understand now that this
          message board is mostly concerned with the translations into
          script. Hence, elfscript. Yeah, dumb move on my part. I have used
          the basic Quenya font to come up with the following. Now that i'm
          in the right place, i can ask the right question. If someone could
          check my work concerning my SCRIPT, then I will be done. And I can
          surprise my wife for her Birthday.
          Thanks in advance.
          Mark

           To see her is to love her,

          > And love but her forever:

          > For nature made her what she is,

          > And never made another!

          Cenitas imya ve melitas
          seeing-her [is] same as loving-her

          Ar mele er erye tennoio
          and to love only her forever

          An Ea acáries yenna narye
          for the World has-made-her into-that she-is

          Ar ullume carne enta
          And never made another

          *yenna: cf. yenna "to which" VT47:2


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        • hisilome
          ... effect to the one you offered.
          Message 4 of 5 , Sep 14, 2005
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            --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "funnywopp" <funnywopp@y...> wrote:
            > Thank you very much. But Thomas Ferencz from elfling has helped me
            > with the translation already. And the meaning is similiar in
            effect > to the one you offered.>

            <<<<<<Well, obviously, since they're both translations of the same
            four lines! :)
            In my very humble opinion, in this case I'd personally rather go for
            Helge's version, though. Seems to me it has fewer "dubious"
            features...I'm not quite sure where _imya_ comes from, or what it
            means, for example, or whether it's even necessary in the sentence
            (I'd love to stand corrected by Atwe!). Maybe related to the entries
            under IMI(1) in the Qenya Lexicon?

            I'm not sure about _er erye_ either. The Etymologies have _er_,
            glossed "one, alone", and _erya_, "single, sole", both under ERE.

            And one other thing: I'm not so comfortable with using _ullume_
            for "never". In his own translation of Firiel's Song, where the word
            occurs, Tolkien renders it as "not...for ever", which is really not
            quite the same (if it was "not...ever", that would be a different
            matter).>>>>>>

            Hisilome

            > Cenitas imya ve melitas
            > seeing-her [is] same as loving-her
            >
            > Ar mele er erye tennoio
            > and to love only her forever
            >
            > An Ea acáries yenna narye
            > for the World has-made-her into-that she-is
            >
            > Ar ullume carne enta
            > And never made another
            >
            > *yenna: cf. yenna "to which" VT47:2
            >
            >
          • Gaerind Gwingechil
            Hi, Hisilome wrote referring to my suggested translation to funnywop s Burns poem over on elfling: In my very humble opinion, in this case I d personally
            Message 5 of 5 , Sep 16, 2005
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              Hi,

              Hisilome wrote referring to my suggested translation
              to funnywop's Burns poem over on elfling:

              "
              In my very humble opinion, in this case I'd personally
              rather go for
              Helge's version, though. Seems to me it has fewer
              "dubious"
              features...I'm not quite sure where _imya_ comes from,
              or what it
              means

              ** it means "same" as an adjective, from VT47

              , for example, or whether it's even necessary in the
              sentence

              ** that's up to debate of course; not necessary in the
              English original, quite necessary in my own tongue and
              may be unncessary in (Neo)Quenya.

              (I'd love to stand corrected by Atwe!). Maybe related
              to the entries
              under IMI(1) in the Qenya Lexicon?

              I'm not sure about _er erye_ either. The Etymologies
              have _er_,
              glossed "one, alone", and _erya_, "single, sole", both
              under ERE.

              ** erye should've been asterisked by me, as it is
              unattested long independent 3rd pers pronoun (her)
              modelled on _elye_. Sorry for that.


              And one other thing: I'm not so comfortable with using
              _ullume_
              for "never". In his own translation of Firiel's Song,
              where the word
              occurs, Tolkien renders it as "not...for ever", which
              is really not
              quite the same (if it was "not...ever", that would be
              a different
              matter).

              ** true, but I think Tolkien's translation may be
              taken as poetic, and _ullume_ fits quite well to the
              pattern of _sillumello_, _illume_ etc.

              By,

              Atwe

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