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Re: Another Runes question - resources

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  • j_mach_wust
    ... An Introduction to Elvish was published long considerably before the Treason of Isengart . The importance of the information in the Treason of Isengart
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 9, 2005
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      lucy calwen wrote:
      > Hello friends,
      >
      > I'd like to ask you something about resources for the Cirth: I've
      > read the article of Jim Allen in the "Introduction to Elvish", which
      > seems to be quite different from what I read in the "Treason of
      > Isengard" (HoME series, volume VII). Just to make sure, since I am
      > preparing an article about the Cirth for my web pages, the "Treason
      > of Isengard" is a more relevant and updated source, right?

      "An Introduction to Elvish" was published long considerably before the
      "Treason of Isengart". The importance of the information in the
      Treason of Isengart may be discussed, since Tolkien wrote about it:
      "All this has been revised and rewritten. See Appendices to Lord of
      the Rings."

      ---------------------------
      j. 'mach' wust
      http://machhezan.tripod.com
      ---------------------------
    • calwen76
      Thank you Mach for your answer. I was aware of the releasing dates of both publications, and that s actually what I thought was correct answer. On the other
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 9, 2005
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        Thank you Mach for your answer. I was aware of the releasing dates of
        both publications, and that's actually what I thought was correct
        answer. On the other hand, Jim Allen released a quite comprehensive
        history of development of Cirth and it is different from what Tolkien
        wrote. What were then the sources of Jim Allen for introducing the
        following history of development?:

        http://sweb.cz/Calwen.Rudh/cirth/cirth_JA.htm

        Thank you for your help, I'd like to untangle this before I release the
        article.

        Lucy

        > lucy calwen wrote:
        > > Hello friends,
        > >
        > > I'd like to ask you something about resources for the Cirth: I've
        > > read the article of Jim Allen in the "Introduction to Elvish", which
        > > seems to be quite different from what I read in the "Treason of
        > > Isengard" (HoME series, volume VII). Just to make sure, since I am
        > > preparing an article about the Cirth for my web pages, the "Treason
        > > of Isengard" is a more relevant and updated source, right?
        >
        > "An Introduction to Elvish" was published long considerably before the
        > "Treason of Isengart". The importance of the information in the
        > Treason of Isengart may be discussed, since Tolkien wrote about it:
        > "All this has been revised and rewritten. See Appendices to Lord of
        > the Rings."
      • Måns Björkman
        Jim Allan based much of his description of the Cirth on an unused, longer version of the text in Appendix E. Since this version was never published, it may or
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 9, 2005
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          Jim Allan based much of his description of the Cirth on an unused,
          longer version of the text in Appendix E. Since this version was never
          published, it may or may not still be valid. But it is more likely to
          be valid than the text "Runes of Beleriand" published in TI, since it
          is (as far as i know) entirely consistent with Appendix E as published
          -- whereas the text in TI presents an entirely different scenario.

          Yours,
          Måns


          --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "calwen76" <calwen.rudh@s...> wrote:
          > Thank you Mach for your answer. I was aware of the releasing dates of
          > both publications, and that's actually what I thought was correct
          > answer. On the other hand, Jim Allen released a quite comprehensive
          > history of development of Cirth and it is different from what Tolkien
          > wrote. What were then the sources of Jim Allen for introducing the
          > following history of development?:
          >
          > http://sweb.cz/Calwen.Rudh/cirth/cirth_JA.htm
          >
          > Thank you for your help, I'd like to untangle this before I release the
          > article.
          >
          > Lucy
        • calwen76
          ... Måns, thank you very much, this was both very suprising and helpful. The table in An Introduction to Elvish, pg. 286 seems to me as a good summary of
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 11, 2005
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            --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Måns Björkman <mansb@h...> wrote:
            > Jim Allan based much of his description of the Cirth on an unused,
            > longer version of the text in Appendix E. Since this version was never
            > published, it may or may not still be valid. But it is more likely to
            > be valid than the text "Runes of Beleriand" published in TI, since it
            > is (as far as i know) entirely consistent with Appendix E as published
            > -- whereas the text in TI presents an entirely different scenario.
            >
            > Yours,
            > Måns


            Måns, thank you very much, this was both very suprising and helpful.
            The table in An Introduction to Elvish, pg. 286 seems to me as a good
            summary of development of the Cirth as well as the history of the Cirth
            described on pages 281-285.

            Cheers,
            Lucy
          • Fernando C.S.
            ... If possible I would like to know: Where can be found this unpublished longer version of the text in Appendix E? Thanks, Fernando
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 13, 2005
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              Måns Björkman wrote:
              > > Jim Allan based much of his description of the Cirth on an unused,
              > > longer version of the text in Appendix E. Since this version was
              > > never published, it may or may not still valid. But it is more

              If possible I would like to know: Where can be found this unpublished
              longer version of the text in Appendix E?

              Thanks,
              Fernando
            • Arden R. Smith
              ... Marquette University Raynor Memorial Libraries Department of Special Collections and University Archives Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 13, 2005
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                On Sep 13, 2005, at 3:04 PM, Fernando C.S. wrote:

                > If possible I would like to know: Where can be found this unpublished
                > longer version of the text in Appendix E?

                Marquette University
                Raynor Memorial Libraries
                Department of Special Collections and University Archives
                Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA


                ***************************************************
                Arden R. Smith erilaz@...

                Perilme metto aimaktur perperienta.
                --Elvish proverb

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