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Another Runes question - resources

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  • calwen76
    Hello friends, I d like to ask you something about resources for the Cirth: I ve read the article of Jim Allen in the Introduction to Elvish , which seems to
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 9, 2005
      Hello friends,

      I'd like to ask you something about resources for the Cirth: I've read
      the article of Jim Allen in the "Introduction to Elvish", which seems
      to be quite different from what I read in the "Treason of Isengard"
      (HoME series, volume VII). Just to make sure, since I am preparing an
      article about the Cirth for my web pages, the "Treason of Isengard" is
      a more relevant and updated source, right?

      Thank you for answers, it would be a great help.

      Lucy
    • j_mach_wust
      ... An Introduction to Elvish was published long considerably before the Treason of Isengart . The importance of the information in the Treason of Isengart
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 9, 2005
        lucy calwen wrote:
        > Hello friends,
        >
        > I'd like to ask you something about resources for the Cirth: I've
        > read the article of Jim Allen in the "Introduction to Elvish", which
        > seems to be quite different from what I read in the "Treason of
        > Isengard" (HoME series, volume VII). Just to make sure, since I am
        > preparing an article about the Cirth for my web pages, the "Treason
        > of Isengard" is a more relevant and updated source, right?

        "An Introduction to Elvish" was published long considerably before the
        "Treason of Isengart". The importance of the information in the
        Treason of Isengart may be discussed, since Tolkien wrote about it:
        "All this has been revised and rewritten. See Appendices to Lord of
        the Rings."

        ---------------------------
        j. 'mach' wust
        http://machhezan.tripod.com
        ---------------------------
      • calwen76
        Thank you Mach for your answer. I was aware of the releasing dates of both publications, and that s actually what I thought was correct answer. On the other
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 9, 2005
          Thank you Mach for your answer. I was aware of the releasing dates of
          both publications, and that's actually what I thought was correct
          answer. On the other hand, Jim Allen released a quite comprehensive
          history of development of Cirth and it is different from what Tolkien
          wrote. What were then the sources of Jim Allen for introducing the
          following history of development?:

          http://sweb.cz/Calwen.Rudh/cirth/cirth_JA.htm

          Thank you for your help, I'd like to untangle this before I release the
          article.

          Lucy

          > lucy calwen wrote:
          > > Hello friends,
          > >
          > > I'd like to ask you something about resources for the Cirth: I've
          > > read the article of Jim Allen in the "Introduction to Elvish", which
          > > seems to be quite different from what I read in the "Treason of
          > > Isengard" (HoME series, volume VII). Just to make sure, since I am
          > > preparing an article about the Cirth for my web pages, the "Treason
          > > of Isengard" is a more relevant and updated source, right?
          >
          > "An Introduction to Elvish" was published long considerably before the
          > "Treason of Isengart". The importance of the information in the
          > Treason of Isengart may be discussed, since Tolkien wrote about it:
          > "All this has been revised and rewritten. See Appendices to Lord of
          > the Rings."
        • Måns Björkman
          Jim Allan based much of his description of the Cirth on an unused, longer version of the text in Appendix E. Since this version was never published, it may or
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 9, 2005
            Jim Allan based much of his description of the Cirth on an unused,
            longer version of the text in Appendix E. Since this version was never
            published, it may or may not still be valid. But it is more likely to
            be valid than the text "Runes of Beleriand" published in TI, since it
            is (as far as i know) entirely consistent with Appendix E as published
            -- whereas the text in TI presents an entirely different scenario.

            Yours,
            Måns


            --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "calwen76" <calwen.rudh@s...> wrote:
            > Thank you Mach for your answer. I was aware of the releasing dates of
            > both publications, and that's actually what I thought was correct
            > answer. On the other hand, Jim Allen released a quite comprehensive
            > history of development of Cirth and it is different from what Tolkien
            > wrote. What were then the sources of Jim Allen for introducing the
            > following history of development?:
            >
            > http://sweb.cz/Calwen.Rudh/cirth/cirth_JA.htm
            >
            > Thank you for your help, I'd like to untangle this before I release the
            > article.
            >
            > Lucy
          • calwen76
            ... Måns, thank you very much, this was both very suprising and helpful. The table in An Introduction to Elvish, pg. 286 seems to me as a good summary of
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 11, 2005
              --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Måns Björkman <mansb@h...> wrote:
              > Jim Allan based much of his description of the Cirth on an unused,
              > longer version of the text in Appendix E. Since this version was never
              > published, it may or may not still be valid. But it is more likely to
              > be valid than the text "Runes of Beleriand" published in TI, since it
              > is (as far as i know) entirely consistent with Appendix E as published
              > -- whereas the text in TI presents an entirely different scenario.
              >
              > Yours,
              > Måns


              Måns, thank you very much, this was both very suprising and helpful.
              The table in An Introduction to Elvish, pg. 286 seems to me as a good
              summary of development of the Cirth as well as the history of the Cirth
              described on pages 281-285.

              Cheers,
              Lucy
            • Fernando C.S.
              ... If possible I would like to know: Where can be found this unpublished longer version of the text in Appendix E? Thanks, Fernando
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 13, 2005
                Måns Björkman wrote:
                > > Jim Allan based much of his description of the Cirth on an unused,
                > > longer version of the text in Appendix E. Since this version was
                > > never published, it may or may not still valid. But it is more

                If possible I would like to know: Where can be found this unpublished
                longer version of the text in Appendix E?

                Thanks,
                Fernando
              • Arden R. Smith
                ... Marquette University Raynor Memorial Libraries Department of Special Collections and University Archives Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 13, 2005
                  On Sep 13, 2005, at 3:04 PM, Fernando C.S. wrote:

                  > If possible I would like to know: Where can be found this unpublished
                  > longer version of the text in Appendix E?

                  Marquette University
                  Raynor Memorial Libraries
                  Department of Special Collections and University Archives
                  Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA


                  ***************************************************
                  Arden R. Smith erilaz@...

                  Perilme metto aimaktur perperienta.
                  --Elvish proverb

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