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Help reply (for Jeff)

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  • calwen76
    Hello dear friends and fans of Tolkien s writing systems! All the best for the year 2005! So, here is my first post of this year. I got an email from Jeff. He
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 4, 2005
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      Hello dear friends and fans of Tolkien's writing systems! All the
      best for the year 2005!

      So, here is my first post of this year. I got an email from Jeff. He
      asked for help. Jeff, see my comments below - and, I'd like to ask
      you, dear Elfscript members, to check the picture I've uploaded to
      the Files section:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/jeff.gif

      -------------
      > ... I have been on this board on and off over the last month or so
      > but still need help in translating some text into Quenya using
      > Tengwar.

      Well, you could start with distinguishing a LANGUAGE (Quenya,
      Sindarin, English, Latin) and a WRITING SYSTEM (or a SCRIPT if you
      wish) – which is e.g. Tengwar (or Runes, Latin, Cyrillic etc.). I
      know that it is a bit misleading when some PC fonts are named as
      Tengwar Quenya or Tengwar Sindarin or Tengwar Cursive… but the
      only difference between these is the position of some tehtar and
      various slight differences in features (like Quenya as a language has
      some letters that Sindarin or English doesn't have respectively).


      > The text is:
      >
      > Carpe Diem or Size the Day
      >
      > not sure which will be easier, Latin or English, they both mean the
      > same thing so it doesn't matter which one

      Well, I can't speak Latin so I've tried the English one

      > and
      >
      > The Lord replied, "The years when you have seen only one set of
      > footprints, my child, is when I carried you."

      > if you can't do this, can you please point me in the direction of
      > some websites that can help? I tried some of the translators but
      > they were useless :(

      I would rather recommend you to take your Lord of the Rings / The
      Return of the King book, find the Appendix E at the back and study
      the PRIMARY source, not the secondary or gradually other sources as
      the websites have in fact been. After you into some degree "master"
      the primary source, you can start working with the information given
      on the web because you'd be probably more able to separate untrue
      or inaccurate information from the correct one.

      > any help would be GREATLY appreciated..
      >
      > jeff

      Well, hope I've been of any help. Wait for the comments of the others!

      Cheers,
      Lucy
    • j_mach_wust
      ... Thank you very much. I wish the same to you and to everybody else who reads the list! ... I like the transcription! A few details: Obvious mistakes: my :
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 4, 2005
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        --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "calwen76" <calwen.rudh@s...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello dear friends and fans of Tolkien's writing systems! All the
        > best for the year 2005!

        Thank you very much. I wish the same to you and to everybody else who
        reads the list!


        > So, here is my first post of this year. I got an email from Jeff. He
        > asked for help. Jeff, see my comments below - and, I'd like to ask
        > you, dear Elfscript members, to check the picture I've uploaded to
        > the Files section:
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/jeff.gif

        I like the transcription! A few details:


        Obvious mistakes:
        "my": there should be malta, not númen
        last "you": there should be vala, not óre
        "only": there should be the breve/caron, not a dot


        Consistency matters:
        The 'stemless calma' in "years" would rather correspond to a yanta in
        "replied" and "carried".

        The long carriers in "only" and "my" would rather correspond to a long
        carrier in "I" as well.


        Debatable:
        Esse instead of esse nuquerna?


        ---------------------------
        j. 'mach' wust
        http://machhezan.tripod.com
        ---------------------------
      • calwen76
        ... Oh no, so stupid mistakes... :( But I don t quite know why there should be a caron as well though the pronunciation is different. I can imagine the same
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 4, 2005
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          --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "j_mach_wust" <j_mach_wust@y...>
          wrote:
          > Obvious mistakes:
          > "my": there should be malta, not númen
          > last "you": there should be vala, not óre
          > "only": there should be the breve/caron, not a dot

          Oh no, so stupid mistakes... :( But I don't quite know why there
          should be a caron as well though the pronunciation is different. I
          can imagine the same usage of it in "my" and "I", but not in "only".
          I used the dot in "only" following the DTS 5 ("history") and a breve
          in "my" following the same source ("by").

          > Consistency matters:
          > The 'stemless calma' in "years" would rather correspond to a yanta
          > in "replied" and "carried".

          I used the stemless calma + accute according to DTS 62 ("Eagles"). I
          don't quite understand your reasoning.

          > The long carriers in "only" and "my" would rather correspond to a
          > long carrier in "I" as well.

          Yap, I can correct the short carrier in "I". Thanks!

          > Debatable:
          > Esse instead of esse nuquerna?

          You mean in "size" or in "is"?

          Thanks a lot!

          Lucy
        • j_mach_wust
          About Lucy s transcription: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/jeff.gif ... In the same specimen, the _e_ that follows a vowel is expressed
          Message 4 of 5 , Jan 4, 2005
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            About Lucy's transcription:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/jeff.gif

            I wrote:
            > > Consistency matters:
            > > The 'stemless calma' in "years" would rather correspond to a yanta
            > > in "replied" and "carried".

            Lucy replied:
            > I used the stemless calma + accute according to DTS 62 ("Eagles"). I
            > don't quite understand your reasoning.

            In the same specimen, the _e_ that follows a vowel is expressed by
            yanta ("Michael").


            > > Debatable:
            > > Esse instead of esse nuquerna?
            >
            > You mean in "size" or in "is"?

            Both. Yet I think esse nuquerna is better.

            ---------------------------
            j. 'mach' wust
            http://machhezan.tripod.com
            ---------------------------
          • i_degilbor
            There is another correction that needs to be made. Jeff mistyped: it should be Seize [not size ] the day . That will, of course, make a difference in
            Message 5 of 5 , Jan 4, 2005
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              There is another correction that needs to be made. Jeff mistyped: it
              should be 'Seize [not "size"] the day'. That will, of course, make a
              difference in transcription.

              Cuio mae, Danny.
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