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Re: [elfscript] Re: My sad story

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  • Helge K. Fauskanger
    ... Probably the best option. ... In my own home, with the help of books and a few tapes :) ... Root HFK = to change, overturn. Hence conversive Vav . ...
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 5, 2004
      Gregson Vaux wrote:

      > The phrase is in English transcribed with tengwar.

      Probably the best option.

      > Where did you study Hebrew?

      In my own home, with the help of books and a few tapes :)

      > In Israeli Hebrew, it is called "Vav Hafoohk".

      Root HFK = to change, overturn. Hence "conversive Vav".

      > Calling it Waw, makes it sound closer to Arabic to my ears.

      Well, the original pronunciation of Hebrew is inevitably closer to Arabic
      (a related Semitic tongue) than the commonest Israeli pronunciation of
      today (since the parents and grandparents of the current Israeli population
      often spoke European tongues, wholly unrelated to Hebrew, and so Hebrew
      Revived was almost inevitably colored by European phonology).

      The letter Waw (Vav) properly does denote W rather than V, though the two
      are no longer distinguished in modern Israeli (compare thee fate of W vs. V
      in Quenya, at least in initial position!) But V is properly Beth without
      dagesh, not Waw.

      Incidentally, in a suggested Hebrew Tengwar mode by BP Jonsson (13 August
      2003), he equates Beth without dagesh with Ampa, whereas Vala is used for
      Waw (Vav). This would also be my suggestion.

      > I also studied Arabic for two semesters so I could better understand
      Semitic languages and thus how to pronounce Biblical Hebrew.

      Well, it is mostly a matter of reintroducing the proper emphatic
      pronunciation of Qof and Teth, maintaining the distinction between long,
      short and ultrashort vowels, distinguishing W from V, cultivating some
      weird gargling sound to represent Ayin (I really worked on that one
      myself!), distingushing Kaf without dagesh from the guttural Cheth, and
      actually pronouncing the spirant allophones of G, D, and T (and not only B,
      K, and P). Most Israelis sin in all of these respects... :)

      - HKF
    • Gregson Vaux
      My ubderstanding of biblical Hebrew is that spirant G is the same as the Israeli Resh and the Arabic Gayin; the spirant T is the same as the English unvoiced
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 5, 2004
        My ubderstanding of biblical Hebrew is that spirant G is the same as
        the Israeli Resh and the Arabic Gayin; the spirant T is the same as
        the English unvoiced TH; and the spirant D is the same is the English
        voiced TH. The Qof is the same as the Arabic Q; the The Arabic and
        Hebrew Ayins are the same; And Het can be found in Arabic and a very
        similar sound can be found in Mexican Spanish.

        I have also heard that the English dark L is actually an emphatic L
        much like the emphatic s and t. As far as I know, I can pronounce all
        of these sounds fairly well. Both Arabic and Hebrew speakers have told
        me that I have an excellent accent but it is hard to know whether
        people are being honest or just flattering. I learned a lot of my
        pronunciation and vocabulary from children's television. It was a
        great way to learn except that I was told that I talked like a crazed
        kindergarten teacher in that I had a much too enthusiastic manner when
        I spoke.

        People say that Arabic and Hebrew are ugly languages but I found them
        to be beautiful. Actually, any language is beautiful when sung by a
        woman with a nice voice (or a man for that matter but I am partial to
        women).

        Gregson

        --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Helge K. Fauskanger"
        <helge.fauskanger@n...> wrote:
        > Gregson Vaux wrote:
        >
        > > The phrase is in English transcribed with tengwar.
        >
        > Probably the best option.
        >
        > > Where did you study Hebrew?
        >
        > In my own home, with the help of books and a few tapes :)
        >
        > > In Israeli Hebrew, it is called "Vav Hafoohk".
        >
        > Root HFK = to change, overturn. Hence "conversive Vav".
        >
        > > Calling it Waw, makes it sound closer to Arabic to my ears.
        >
        > Well, the original pronunciation of Hebrew is inevitably closer to
        Arabic
        > (a related Semitic tongue) than the commonest Israeli pronunciation of
        > today (since the parents and grandparents of the current Israeli
        population
        > often spoke European tongues, wholly unrelated to Hebrew, and so Hebrew
        > Revived was almost inevitably colored by European phonology).
        >
        > The letter Waw (Vav) properly does denote W rather than V, though
        the two
        > are no longer distinguished in modern Israeli (compare thee fate of
        W vs. V
        > in Quenya, at least in initial position!) But V is properly Beth without
        > dagesh, not Waw.
        >
        > Incidentally, in a suggested Hebrew Tengwar mode by BP Jonsson (13
        August
        > 2003), he equates Beth without dagesh with Ampa, whereas Vala is
        used for
        > Waw (Vav). This would also be my suggestion.
        >
        > > I also studied Arabic for two semesters so I could better understand
        > Semitic languages and thus how to pronounce Biblical Hebrew.
        >
        > Well, it is mostly a matter of reintroducing the proper emphatic
        > pronunciation of Qof and Teth, maintaining the distinction between long,
        > short and ultrashort vowels, distinguishing W from V, cultivating some
        > weird gargling sound to represent Ayin (I really worked on that one
        > myself!), distingushing Kaf without dagesh from the guttural Cheth, and
        > actually pronouncing the spirant allophones of G, D, and T (and not
        only B,
        > K, and P). Most Israelis sin in all of these respects... :)
        >
        > - HKF
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