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Re: [elfscript] Re: Additions and/or alterations to Tengwar Annatar

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  • Johan Winge
    On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:33:43 +0100, Johan Winge ... The character 191 will most likely be changed to the likeness of one of the hw
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 3, 2004
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      On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:33:43 +0100, Johan Winge <johan.winge@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:21:37 -0000, j_mach_wust <machhezan@...>
      > wrote:
      >
      >> (1) a "rómen nuquerna", as. e.g. in DTS 17, 18, 23,
      >
      > (As for this one, it may be argued that I in fact allready have it,
      > albeit in another allographic design, sc. the w-tengwa at codepoint
      > 191.)

      The character 191 will most likely be changed to the likeness of one of
      the hw tengwar of DTS 18. I will probably not include a true upside down
      roomen.

      >> (2) a "u-shaped" anna, as. e.g. in DTS 17, 18, 23, 24, 28;
      >>
      >> (3) a grave accent, as in DTS 41 (not included in any tengwar font yet),
      >>
      >> (4) a "traditional spelling" question mark, as e.g. in DTS 18, 23,
      >>
      >> (5) a "traditional spelling" exclamation mark, as e.g. in DTS 17, 18,
      >> 23.
      >
      > (6) The reverse overcurl (at codepoint 224-227 in e.g. Tengwar Quenya).
      >
      > (7) Christopher Tolkien's peculiar hwesta and quesse.
      >
      > (8) The numeral 12-tengwa.
      >
      > (9) The oore>roomen correction.
      >
      > (10) Alternate versions of arda and the anglosaxon hw-tengwa.
      >
      > and, possibly, (11) The King's Letter numerals.

      (12) The beleriandic mh-tengwa as in DTS 31

      (13) Narrow modified u-curl/reversed tilde as in DTS 46

      Perhaps (14) Breve tehta, as in DTS 5, 10? Thoughts on this? Is it meant
      to be a breve, or is it a sloppy hacek?

      --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Pearson" <pearsond@o...> wrote:
      >
      > In many modes, the English letter 'x' is expressed
      > with quesse plus Dan Smith's "under-tail" [alt 0146].
      > It would be nice for us lazy-bones to have this encoded
      > as a single character. Is this even a possibility?

      Sure it is possible. I will have to create an alternative font anyway, to
      contain all these additional signs, so there is plenty of space. Never the
      less, I'm reluctant to add ligatures that could just as well be written as
      two separate characters.

      On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 04:00:33 -0000, Gregson Vaux <gvaux@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > I use your font in Microsoft Word but I do not know
      > how to access all of the characters. I use the shift key to access the
      > tehtar and some other characters but how do I get all of the rest? I
      > think in your pdf file you mention something along the line of "alt
      > codes" but I do know know how they work and when I try all
      > combinations of using the alt key, nothing happens. Help, what do I do?

      The idea is to hold down the alt key while writing the numeric code
      _preceded_by_0_(zero). I gave missleading advice in the documentation for
      the font, where I didn't mention the preceding zero, without which the
      codes don't work in all cases.

      This method works in Microsoft Windows. I don't know exactly how to do it
      in other operating systems.

      Regards,
      Johan Winge
    • j_mach_wust
      ... I d understand it to be a breve, since that s rather what it looks like and since the caron/hatchek is the (theoretical, but unattested) single stroke
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 4, 2004
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        --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Johan Winge" <johan.winge@t...> wrote:

        > >> (1) a "rómen nuquerna", as. e.g. in DTS 17, 18, 23,
        > >
        > > (As for this one, it may be argued that I in fact allready have
        > > it, albeit in another allographic design, sc. the w-tengwa at
        > > codepoint 191.)
        >
        > The character 191 will most likely be changed to the likeness of one
        > of the hw tengwar of DTS 18. I will probably not include a true
        > upside down roomen.
        >
        > >> (2) a "u-shaped" anna, as. e.g. in DTS 17, 18, 23, 24, 28;
        > >>
        > >> (3) a grave accent, as in DTS 41 (not included in any tengwar
        > >> font yet),
        > >>
        > >> (4) a "traditional spelling" question mark, as e.g. in DTS 18,
        > >> 23,
        > >>
        > >> (5) a "traditional spelling" exclamation mark, as e.g. in DTS 17,
        > >> 18, 23.
        > >
        > > (6) The reverse overcurl (at codepoint 224-227 in e.g. Tengwar
        > > Quenya).
        > >
        > > (7) Christopher Tolkien's peculiar hwesta and quesse.
        > >
        > > (8) The numeral 12-tengwa.
        > >
        > > (9) The oore>roomen correction.
        > >
        > > (10) Alternate versions of arda and the anglosaxon hw-tengwa.
        > >
        > > and, possibly, (11) The King's Letter numerals.
        >
        > (12) The beleriandic mh-tengwa as in DTS 31
        >
        > (13) Narrow modified u-curl/reversed tilde as in DTS 46
        >
        > Perhaps (14) Breve tehta, as in DTS 5, 10? Thoughts on this? Is it
        > meant to be a breve, or is it a sloppy hacek?

        I'd understand it to be a breve, since that's rather what it looks
        like and since the caron/hatchek is the (theoretical, but unattested)
        single stroke version of the three dots of the æ-tehta.

        I personally don't like that tehta much since I haven't been able to
        fit it within the system of the other tehtar (curls for back rounded
        vowels, three dots for open vowels, and the easiest forms, dot and
        stroke, for front vowels).

        ---------------------------
        j. 'mach' wust
        http://machhezan.tripod.com
        ---------------------------
      • Johan Winge
        Just a reminder, so that this is not forgotten. I will start processing the data I have received at the end of this week, so, if you want to contribute, please
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 5, 2004
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          Just a reminder, so that this is not forgotten. I will start processing
          the data I have received at the end of this week, so, if you want to
          contribute, please send in your values before december 12.

          Remember that you don't have to analyze all pairs, so if you think it is
          too much of work to judge all of them, its perfectly allright and still
          helpful, if you submit values only for some of them.

          Note: I'm especially interested in no. 1-36 and 163-198, and also all
          pairs where the last tengwa is lambe, alda, hyarmen or yanta, i.e. the
          previously mentioned pairs plus 45, 46, 49, 50 etc..

          Thank you!
          -- Johan Winge

          On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:05:38 +0100, Johan Winge <johan.winge@...>
          wrote:

          > I'm looking for people who want to help me fine-tuning the spacing of the
          > next version of my font Tengwar Annatar. The task is easy and simple,
          > though perhaps somewhat boring. ;-) You will need a bit of patience, some
          > basic aesthetic common sense, and ideally a high quality printer. (Laser
          > or equivalent.)
          >
          > Just download the file
          > http://home.student.uu.se/jowi4905/fonts/kerntest.pdf and print it (or,
          > as
          > a last resort, zoom in the pages on your monitor so that the gradual
          > increase in spacing is obvious and uniform.)
          >
          > Then, for each one of the 342 lines, select the pair of tengwar which you
          > like most, those that have just the right amount of space between them,
          > in
          > your opinion. Some guidelines:
          >
          > * Don't think too much. Just go ahead and choose what you think looks
          > best. (Otherwise it will take you ages, and there are no guaranties the
          > result will be better anyway.) Give an average if you can't deside on one
          > particular pair.
          >
          > * There is nothing special with the column named 0. There is no point in
          > striving to get your choices equally distributed on both sides of this
          > value, just because it is named zero. If you find that you tend to give
          > many negative values, that just means that you want a more dense font,
          > and
          > that is perfectly all right. Likewise, if most of your choices are
          > positive, you want a wider font than the current version. This is your
          > chance of making your opinion count! You will probably find that your
          > numeric values vary a great deal.
          >
          > * Be consistent! This is of the highest importance. Ideally, jump back
          > once in a while and check that you still prefer the same amount of
          > spacing, visually speaking, as you did before.
          >
          > Then send your 342 values (or how much or less you managed to do) to me,
          > for example in an Excel file, or as a normal text file. (In the last
          > case,
          > be careful not to accidently skip one value. Ideally the values should be
          > enumerated in some way.)
          >
          > Thank you! Your help is highly appreciated!
          > -- Johan Winge
          >
        • Gregson Vaux
          Johan, My only comment about Annatar is that I would like longer stems for the italic version (I guess that a stem is called a telco). I read that this font
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 5, 2004
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            Johan,

            My only comment about Annatar is that I would like longer stems for
            the italic version (I guess that a stem is called a telco). I read
            that this font used to have longer stems but for some reason they were
            shortened but it would be nice if there were an alternate font with
            longer stems.

            Gregson

            --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Johan Winge" <johan.winge@t...> wrote:
            > Just a reminder, so that this is not forgotten. I will start
            processing
            > the data I have received at the end of this week, so, if you want to
            > contribute, please send in your values before december 12.
            >
            > Remember that you don't have to analyze all pairs, so if you think
            it is
            > too much of work to judge all of them, its perfectly allright and
            still
            > helpful, if you submit values only for some of them.
            >
            > Note: I'm especially interested in no. 1-36 and 163-198, and also all
            > pairs where the last tengwa is lambe, alda, hyarmen or yanta, i.e. the
            > previously mentioned pairs plus 45, 46, 49, 50 etc..
            >
            > Thank you!
            > -- Johan Winge
            >
            > On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:05:38 +0100, Johan Winge <johan.winge@t...>
            > wrote:
            >
            > > I'm looking for people who want to help me fine-tuning the spacing
            of the
            > > next version of my font Tengwar Annatar. The task is easy and simple,
            > > though perhaps somewhat boring. ;-) You will need a bit of
            patience, some
            > > basic aesthetic common sense, and ideally a high quality printer.
            (Laser
            > > or equivalent.)
            > >
            > > Just download the file
            > > http://home.student.uu.se/jowi4905/fonts/kerntest.pdf and print it
            (or,
            > > as
            > > a last resort, zoom in the pages on your monitor so that the gradual
            > > increase in spacing is obvious and uniform.)
            > >
            > > Then, for each one of the 342 lines, select the pair of tengwar
            which you
            > > like most, those that have just the right amount of space between
            them,
            > > in
            > > your opinion. Some guidelines:
            > >
            > > * Don't think too much. Just go ahead and choose what you think looks
            > > best. (Otherwise it will take you ages, and there are no
            guaranties the
            > > result will be better anyway.) Give an average if you can't deside
            on one
            > > particular pair.
            > >
            > > * There is nothing special with the column named 0. There is no
            point in
            > > striving to get your choices equally distributed on both sides of this
            > > value, just because it is named zero. If you find that you tend to
            give
            > > many negative values, that just means that you want a more dense
            font,
            > > and
            > > that is perfectly all right. Likewise, if most of your choices are
            > > positive, you want a wider font than the current version. This is your
            > > chance of making your opinion count! You will probably find that your
            > > numeric values vary a great deal.
            > >
            > > * Be consistent! This is of the highest importance. Ideally, jump back
            > > once in a while and check that you still prefer the same amount of
            > > spacing, visually speaking, as you did before.
            > >
            > > Then send your 342 values (or how much or less you managed to do)
            to me,
            > > for example in an Excel file, or as a normal text file. (In the last
            > > case,
            > > be careful not to accidently skip one value. Ideally the values
            should be
            > > enumerated in some way.)
            > >
            > > Thank you! Your help is highly appreciated!
            > > -- Johan Winge
            > >
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