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Re: [elfscript] Re: New file added : is it correct?

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  • Dave
    ... [Well, for a discussion of this, you may want to read Elfscript messages 4345-4349 and 4353. If you want a straightforward recommendation though, I d
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 30, 2004
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      >--- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "fradeve virgilio" <fradeve11@v...> wrote:

      >The question of the _i_ looks more complicated. Like I've said, I don't know Sindarin, so the question of peculiar >accentuation of the word is a problem for me. I will draw long or short carriers everywhere you will indicated me.
      >So, on this topic, I ask you to be more clear!

      [Well, for a discussion of this, you may want to read Elfscript messages 4345-4349 and 4353.

      If you want a straightforward recommendation though, I'd repeat what I wrote in message 4336, i.e. simply use short carriers for all occurrences of _i_.

      My _rationale_ for suggesting this would be a bit different now: it seems that in this mode (Mode of Beleriand) long vs. short carriers do not indicate any distinct sounds, so there is no need to distinguish between them in writing (they all stand for short _i_). Long _i_ (which incidentally does not occur in your calligraphy) can be indicated by an andaith (acute accent) on top (as with the other vowels), _not_ with the help of long vs. short carrier.

      (The dot that is occasionally seen on the I-tengwar (i.e. the long or short carrier) in this mode does not carry any special phonetic significance, either. Rather, it just seems to "emphasize" the I-tengwar visually.)

      The upshot is that it's really up to you: you can use only short or only long carriers, with or without dots, or even mix them as you like (I personally would prefer consistent usage).

      So, in other words, once you've corrected the spelling of _im_, _llie_ and maybe _en_ (see message 4335), the spelling will be fine.]

      Hísilómë




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    • calwen76
      ... creation. I m only doing a favour to my girlfriend, that needs help with the tengwar transcription. I ve studied Quenya, not Sindarin, so I don t know
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 1, 2004
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        --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Fradeve Virgilio" <fradeve11@v...>
        Replying to Calwen76:
        > The "Grelvish" text that I'm translating in tengwar is not a my
        creation. I'm only doing a favour to my girlfriend, that needs help
        with the tengwar transcription. I've studied Quenya, not Sindarin, so
        I don't know exactly in which way the phrase

        _Aa' I elin thilio ui erin le, ar I sul dregi im fin llie brannon en
        ely_

        must be representative of Grelvish or other depreciable languages.
        So, starting from my personal point of view, I will more appreciate
        someone who will underlines where and what are the errors, than a
        simply and corrosive verdict. Probably my girlfriend will think right
        there.

        ------------

        Hm, so if it's not your creation how can you say it is a "Sindarin"
        text?
        My comments:
        1) this group concerns the scripts, not the languages (it's better to
        go to the Elfling group to look for help)
        2) to be more specific, as you wished me to be, in Sindarin, e.g. the
        _Aa'_ cluster is not possible, as well as the initial cluster _ll_ in
        _llie_ : this language is called Grelvish and thus I can't help you
        with the translation since I don't know Grelvish as well as I think
        none here (and either on Elfling group) is willing to help you with
        correcting such text. You missed my point though. :-/

        To Dave: I don't understand you, Dave, why are you doing this? :-(

        Lucy
      • Fradeve Virgilio
        ... know Sindarin, so the question of peculiar accentuation of the word is a problem for me. I will draw long or short carriers everywhere you will indicated
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 5, 2004
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          In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "fradeve virgilio" <fradeve11@v...> wrote:

          >>The question of the _i_ looks more complicated. Like I've said, I don't
          know Sindarin, so the question of peculiar >>accentuation of the word is a
          problem for me. I will draw long or short carriers everywhere you will
          indicated me.
          >>So, on this topic, I ask you to be more clear!

          > [Well, for a discussion of this, you may want to read Elfscript messages
          4345-4349 and 4353.

          > If you want a straightforward recommendation though, I'd repeat what I
          wrote in message 4336, i.e. simply use short >carriers for all occurrences
          of _i_.

          > My _rationale_ for suggesting this would be a bit different now: it seems
          that in this mode (Mode of Beleriand) long >vs. short carriers do not
          indicate any distinct sounds, so there is no need to distinguish between
          them in writing (they >all stand for short _i_). Long _i_ (which
          incidentally does not occur in your calligraphy) can be indicated by an
          andaith >(acute accent) on top (as with the other vowels), _not_ with the
          help of long vs. short carrier.

          >(The dot that is occasionally seen on the I-tengwar (i.e. the long or
          short carrier) in this mode does not carry any >special phonetic
          significance, either. Rather, it just seems to "emphasize" the I-tengwar
          visually.)

          > The upshot is that it's really up to you: you can use only short or only
          long carriers, with or without dots, or even >mix them as you like (I
          personally would prefer consistent usage).

          > So, in other words, once you've corrected the spelling of _im_, _llie_
          and maybe _en_ (see message 4335), the spelling >will be fine.]

          > Hísilómë




          Excellent!

          Now I’m completely satisfacted…
          You’ve been too exaurient explaining the point of situation (on the contrary
          of other people on this ML…): little pills of Sindarin!
          Much thanks, I’m going to prepare the scratch for a difinitive version!

          Fradeve Virgilio



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Fradeve Virgilio
          ... Answering to Calwen76: Now, I ve very appreciated your explaining. I think it s better than your behaviour before this last post. I ve said that it was a
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 12, 2004
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            >--- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Fradeve Virgilio" <fradeve11@v...>
            >Replying to Calwen76:
            >> The "Grelvish" text that I'm translating in tengwar is not a my
            >>creation. I'm only doing a favour to my girlfriend, that needs help
            >>with the tengwar transcription. I've studied Quenya, not Sindarin, so
            >>I don't know exactly in which way the phrase
            >>
            >>_Aa' I elin thilio ui erin le, ar I sul dregi im fin llie brannon en
            >>ely_
            >>
            >>must be representative of Grelvish or other depreciable languages.
            >>So, starting from my personal point of view, I will more appreciate
            >>someone who will underlines where and what are the errors, than a
            >>simply and corrosive verdict. Probably my girlfriend will think right
            >>there.
            >
            >------------
            >
            >Hm, so if it's not your creation how can you say it is a "Sindarin"
            >text?
            >My comments:
            >1) this group concerns the scripts, not the languages (it's better to
            >go to the Elfling group to look for help)
            >2) to be more specific, as you wished me to be, in Sindarin, e.g. the
            >_Aa'_ cluster is not possible, as well as the initial cluster _ll_ in
            >_llie_ : this language is called Grelvish and thus I can't help you
            >with the translation since I don't know Grelvish as well as I think
            >none here (and either on Elfling group) is willing to help you with
            >correcting such text. You missed my point though. :-/
            >
            >To Dave: I don't understand you, Dave, why are you doing this? :-(
            >
            >Lucy




            Answering to Calwen76:

            Now, I've very appreciated your explaining. I think it's better than your
            behaviour before this last post.
            I've said that it was a "Sindarin" text only because I supposed that my
            girlfriend had a little knowledge
            on this linguistic topic (but, however, now I'm thinking I'm wrong.).
            Was not my intention to start a linguistic dibate on this ML in wich it's
            quite OT, but I've started considering
            the tengwar side of the phrase, so anything was put out during this
            discussion was not my fault.
            I'll sent your response to the author of the phrase.
            I'm working on a correct version. so,

            Regards,

            Fradeve


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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