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My sad story

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  • Gregson Vaux
    Hi everyone and thanks for helping me with my poem transcription. Here is the story behind the poem: I was dating a woman named Megan and we loved each other
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 19, 2004
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      Hi everyone and thanks for helping me with my poem transcription. Here
      is the story behind the poem:

      I was dating a woman named Megan and we loved each other very much. I
      wrote the poem as an engagement poem and read it to her after I gave
      her the engagement ring. We both liked the Lord of the Ring movies
      very much and spent a lot of time talking about them and reading the
      books.

      I like to make things and I wanted to give her a present that looked
      like it came from Middle Earth. I spent two weeks making an oak chest
      with parts of the poem transcribed on the lid with futhark runes. They
      are of course not actual dwarf runes but close enough to look like a
      gift from the Dwarves. I also made and bound a book with all sorts of
      pictures in it that I thought would look like they were Elfish. I
      didn't know the tengwar at the time so I just found a tengwar font and
      filled the book with gibberish so that it would look like a gift from
      the Elves. I gave her these gifts but even though I spent a long time
      making them, I always got the impression that she would have preferred
      gifts that cost a lot of money. Anyway, I was never happy with the
      book because I wanted the Elvish writing to be real and not just
      gibberish. I always swore that I would learn the tengwar when I had
      time. I also very much wanted to have a tengwar ring and I thought
      that one day I would get the two of us rings that would say, "and the
      winter gave way to the spring" which was a line from the poem I wrote
      for her. I thought that it summarized how my life had changed with
      marriage.

      To make a long story short, I very much wanted to have children and
      she decided that she very much did not. We had discussed this before
      we got married but it seems that when the time came, she could not go
      through with it so she moved out and served me divorce papers.

      To say the least I was heart broken. I wanted to finish the things
      that I had started so even though she had moved out, I wanted to give
      her a proper gift from the elves. I have now learned the tengwar and
      transcribed the poem in the English mode. I am sure that Quenya would
      be better but I only have so much time. It is a pointless gift at this
      point but it makes me feel better. BTW, I still may make an actual elf
      book. I still have the pictures that are in the gibberish version but
      I have now written a story based on those pictures and I might take
      the time to transcribe it. Learning the tengwar at this time also has
      a certain logic to me because the Elves strike me as being beautiful
      but tragic and doomed which may sum up the marriage we had.

      I also still want the tengwar ring. So I contacted the same company
      that made our engagement rings and I sent mine back. I am having it
      melted down and recast with the tengwar phrase, "and the winter gave
      way to the spring". It is meant to be a symbol of hope for the future,
      and a recognition of what we had in the past. I especially like that
      the phrase begins with the word and. In biblical Hebrew, there is a
      grammatical feature called "conversive and". Some sentences in the
      bible begin with the word "and" it acts as the actual word "and" but
      it also changes the tense from past to future or future to past. In
      English translations, this subtlety is lost. If we look at the spring
      phrase on the ring, it can say that the winter gave way to the spring
      when we got married in the past and simultaneously say that the
      winter will give way to the spring which is hope for the future.

      Well, that is the story behind why I learned the tengwar, why I
      transcribed that particular poem, and why I am getting a tengwar ring
      made. I hope the turns out well and when it is done, I will post a
      picture to this group.

      Gregson
    • Helge K. Fauskanger
      I m sorry your relationship didn t work out in the end. Better luck next time may sound like a rather banal wish, but it s pretty much all I can think of to
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 27, 2004
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        I'm sorry your relationship didn't work out in the end. "Better luck next
        time" may sound like a rather banal wish, but it's pretty much all I can
        think of to say...

        > I am having [the ring] melted down and recast with the tengwar phrase,
        "and the winter gave way to the spring". It is meant to be a symbol of hope
        for the future, and a recognition of what we had in the past. I especially
        like that the phrase begins with the word and. In biblical Hebrew, there is
        a grammatical feature called "conversive and". Some sentences in the bible
        begin with the word "and" it acts as the actual word "and" but it also
        changes the tense from past to future or future to past. In English
        translations, this subtlety is lost.

        Ah...the good old Waw Consecutive, as it is also called (since in Hebrew,
        "and" is expressed by the letter Waw). You know, in the semi-published
        "Túrin Wrapper" there occurs the word _arphent_, apparently "and said",
        with _ar_ "and" directly prefixed to _pent_ "said" (and even causing liquid
        mutation P > PH). It has always reminded me of a Hebrew _wayyo'mer_ "and
        (he) said", with "and" (wa-) likewise directly prefixed to _yo'mer_ "said"
        (or "says", or "will say" -- this is what you call the future tense, though
        "imperfect" may be the more common term for this Hebrew verb form). With
        _wa-_ prefixed like this, the verb is taken as a "past" of _perfect_ tense
        instead, and so _wayyo'mer_ must be translated "and (he) said" rather than
        "and (he) says/will say".

        On the other hand, Sindarin _pent_ (the _-phent_ of _arphent_) is surely
        the past tense, formed by nasal infixion. The present tense is _pêd_, the
        future (perhaps) _peditha_; no attested example shows us how to add the
        future-tense ending _-tha_ to a consonant stem.

        > If we look at the spring phrase on the ring, it can say that the winter
        gave way to the spring when we got married in the past and simultaneously
        say that the winter will give way to the spring which is hope for the
        future.

        Well, if the Hebrew system was "valid" in Sindarin as well, I would expect
        *_arphed_ or (possibly) *_arpheditha_ rather than _arphent_ for "and said".
        But of course one may use a Hebraism in one's Elvish or one's English, as
        long as it is recognized as such...

        This "and the winter..." inscription, is it to be in English (written in
        Tengwar) or in Quenya/Sindarin?

        - HKF
      • Gregson Vaux
        Helge, The phrase is in English transcribed with tengwar. Where did you study Hebrew? Myself I studied in an immigration program in Israel for a year even
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 29, 2004
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          Helge,

          The phrase is in English transcribed with tengwar. Where did you study
          Hebrew? Myself I studied in an immigration program in Israel for a
          year even though I am Christian. I was a very enthusiastic learner. In
          Israeli Hebrew, it is called "Vav Hafoohk". Calling it Waw, makes it
          sound closer to Arabic to my ears. I also studied Arabic for two
          semesters so I could better understand Semitic languages and thus how
          to pronounce Biblical Hebrew. BTW, you can find the phrase in the
          "Files" section in a file called "Tengwar Transcription for Elfscript".

          Gregson

          --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Helge K. Fauskanger"
          <helge.fauskanger@n...> wrote:
          > I'm sorry your relationship didn't work out in the end. "Better luck
          next
          > time" may sound like a rather banal wish, but it's pretty much all I can
          > think of to say...
          >
          > > I am having [the ring] melted down and recast with the tengwar phrase,
          > "and the winter gave way to the spring". It is meant to be a symbol
          of hope
          > for the future, and a recognition of what we had in the past. I
          especially
          > like that the phrase begins with the word and. In biblical Hebrew,
          there is
          > a grammatical feature called "conversive and". Some sentences in the
          bible
          > begin with the word "and" it acts as the actual word "and" but it also
          > changes the tense from past to future or future to past. In English
          > translations, this subtlety is lost.
          >
          > Ah...the good old Waw Consecutive, as it is also called (since in
          Hebrew,
          > "and" is expressed by the letter Waw). You know, in the semi-published
          > "Túrin Wrapper" there occurs the word _arphent_, apparently "and said",
          > with _ar_ "and" directly prefixed to _pent_ "said" (and even causing
          liquid
          > mutation P > PH). It has always reminded me of a Hebrew _wayyo'mer_ "and
          > (he) said", with "and" (wa-) likewise directly prefixed to _yo'mer_
          "said"
          > (or "says", or "will say" -- this is what you call the future tense,
          though
          > "imperfect" may be the more common term for this Hebrew verb form). With
          > _wa-_ prefixed like this, the verb is taken as a "past" of _perfect_
          tense
          > instead, and so _wayyo'mer_ must be translated "and (he) said"
          rather than
          > "and (he) says/will say".
          >
          > On the other hand, Sindarin _pent_ (the _-phent_ of _arphent_) is surely
          > the past tense, formed by nasal infixion. The present tense is
          _pêd_, the
          > future (perhaps) _peditha_; no attested example shows us how to add the
          > future-tense ending _-tha_ to a consonant stem.
          >
          > > If we look at the spring phrase on the ring, it can say that the
          winter
          > gave way to the spring when we got married in the past and
          simultaneously
          > say that the winter will give way to the spring which is hope for the
          > future.
          >
          > Well, if the Hebrew system was "valid" in Sindarin as well, I would
          expect
          > *_arphed_ or (possibly) *_arpheditha_ rather than _arphent_ for "and
          said".
          > But of course one may use a Hebraism in one's Elvish or one's
          English, as
          > long as it is recognized as such...
          >
          > This "and the winter..." inscription, is it to be in English (written in
          > Tengwar) or in Quenya/Sindarin?
          >
          > - HKF
        • Helge K. Fauskanger
          ... Probably the best option. ... In my own home, with the help of books and a few tapes :) ... Root HFK = to change, overturn. Hence conversive Vav . ...
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 5, 2004
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            Gregson Vaux wrote:

            > The phrase is in English transcribed with tengwar.

            Probably the best option.

            > Where did you study Hebrew?

            In my own home, with the help of books and a few tapes :)

            > In Israeli Hebrew, it is called "Vav Hafoohk".

            Root HFK = to change, overturn. Hence "conversive Vav".

            > Calling it Waw, makes it sound closer to Arabic to my ears.

            Well, the original pronunciation of Hebrew is inevitably closer to Arabic
            (a related Semitic tongue) than the commonest Israeli pronunciation of
            today (since the parents and grandparents of the current Israeli population
            often spoke European tongues, wholly unrelated to Hebrew, and so Hebrew
            Revived was almost inevitably colored by European phonology).

            The letter Waw (Vav) properly does denote W rather than V, though the two
            are no longer distinguished in modern Israeli (compare thee fate of W vs. V
            in Quenya, at least in initial position!) But V is properly Beth without
            dagesh, not Waw.

            Incidentally, in a suggested Hebrew Tengwar mode by BP Jonsson (13 August
            2003), he equates Beth without dagesh with Ampa, whereas Vala is used for
            Waw (Vav). This would also be my suggestion.

            > I also studied Arabic for two semesters so I could better understand
            Semitic languages and thus how to pronounce Biblical Hebrew.

            Well, it is mostly a matter of reintroducing the proper emphatic
            pronunciation of Qof and Teth, maintaining the distinction between long,
            short and ultrashort vowels, distinguishing W from V, cultivating some
            weird gargling sound to represent Ayin (I really worked on that one
            myself!), distingushing Kaf without dagesh from the guttural Cheth, and
            actually pronouncing the spirant allophones of G, D, and T (and not only B,
            K, and P). Most Israelis sin in all of these respects... :)

            - HKF
          • Gregson Vaux
            My ubderstanding of biblical Hebrew is that spirant G is the same as the Israeli Resh and the Arabic Gayin; the spirant T is the same as the English unvoiced
            Message 5 of 5 , Dec 5, 2004
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              My ubderstanding of biblical Hebrew is that spirant G is the same as
              the Israeli Resh and the Arabic Gayin; the spirant T is the same as
              the English unvoiced TH; and the spirant D is the same is the English
              voiced TH. The Qof is the same as the Arabic Q; the The Arabic and
              Hebrew Ayins are the same; And Het can be found in Arabic and a very
              similar sound can be found in Mexican Spanish.

              I have also heard that the English dark L is actually an emphatic L
              much like the emphatic s and t. As far as I know, I can pronounce all
              of these sounds fairly well. Both Arabic and Hebrew speakers have told
              me that I have an excellent accent but it is hard to know whether
              people are being honest or just flattering. I learned a lot of my
              pronunciation and vocabulary from children's television. It was a
              great way to learn except that I was told that I talked like a crazed
              kindergarten teacher in that I had a much too enthusiastic manner when
              I spoke.

              People say that Arabic and Hebrew are ugly languages but I found them
              to be beautiful. Actually, any language is beautiful when sung by a
              woman with a nice voice (or a man for that matter but I am partial to
              women).

              Gregson

              --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Helge K. Fauskanger"
              <helge.fauskanger@n...> wrote:
              > Gregson Vaux wrote:
              >
              > > The phrase is in English transcribed with tengwar.
              >
              > Probably the best option.
              >
              > > Where did you study Hebrew?
              >
              > In my own home, with the help of books and a few tapes :)
              >
              > > In Israeli Hebrew, it is called "Vav Hafoohk".
              >
              > Root HFK = to change, overturn. Hence "conversive Vav".
              >
              > > Calling it Waw, makes it sound closer to Arabic to my ears.
              >
              > Well, the original pronunciation of Hebrew is inevitably closer to
              Arabic
              > (a related Semitic tongue) than the commonest Israeli pronunciation of
              > today (since the parents and grandparents of the current Israeli
              population
              > often spoke European tongues, wholly unrelated to Hebrew, and so Hebrew
              > Revived was almost inevitably colored by European phonology).
              >
              > The letter Waw (Vav) properly does denote W rather than V, though
              the two
              > are no longer distinguished in modern Israeli (compare thee fate of
              W vs. V
              > in Quenya, at least in initial position!) But V is properly Beth without
              > dagesh, not Waw.
              >
              > Incidentally, in a suggested Hebrew Tengwar mode by BP Jonsson (13
              August
              > 2003), he equates Beth without dagesh with Ampa, whereas Vala is
              used for
              > Waw (Vav). This would also be my suggestion.
              >
              > > I also studied Arabic for two semesters so I could better understand
              > Semitic languages and thus how to pronounce Biblical Hebrew.
              >
              > Well, it is mostly a matter of reintroducing the proper emphatic
              > pronunciation of Qof and Teth, maintaining the distinction between long,
              > short and ultrashort vowels, distinguishing W from V, cultivating some
              > weird gargling sound to represent Ayin (I really worked on that one
              > myself!), distingushing Kaf without dagesh from the guttural Cheth, and
              > actually pronouncing the spirant allophones of G, D, and T (and not
              only B,
              > K, and P). Most Israelis sin in all of these respects... :)
              >
              > - HKF
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