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Re: Hope

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  • calwen76
    ... Hello sscrivani23, here is the file I ve uploaded, there are four possible (BMO) transcriptions of the word HOPE (maybe more...):
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 4, 2004
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      --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "sscrivani23" <sscrivani23@y...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Does anyone know how to write hope in elven, i want to get it as a
      > tatto.

      Hello sscrivani23,

      here is the file I've uploaded, there are four possible (BMO)
      transcriptions of the word HOPE (maybe more...):

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/files/calwen76/hope.gif

      1. orthographic tehtar mode (DTS 10)
      2. pronunciation tehtar mode (DTS 13)
      4. orthographic full mode (DTS 48)
      5. pronunciation full mode (DTS 24)

      Lucy
    • Dave
      ... Tried to have a look at your suggestions, but--document not found :). Just one question: Are you sure that the Book of Mazarbul (middle) page (DTS 13) is
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 4, 2004
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        calwen76 wrote:

        >
        > --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "sscrivani23" <sscrivani23@y...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Does anyone know how to write hope in elven, i want to get it as a
        > > tatto.
        >
        > Hello sscrivani23,
        >
        > here is the file I've uploaded, there are four possible (BMO)
        > transcriptions of the word HOPE (maybe more...):
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/files/calwen76/hope.gif
        >
        > 1. orthographic tehtar mode (DTS 10)
        > 2. pronunciation tehtar mode (DTS 13)
        > 4. orthographic full mode (DTS 48)
        > 5. pronunciation full mode (DTS 24)
        >
        > Lucy
        >
        Tried to have a look at your suggestions, but--document not found :).
        Just one question: Are you sure that the Book of Mazarbul (middle) page
        (DTS 13) is in a tehtar mode?

        Hísilómë






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • calwen76
        ... found :). ... page ... It s wierd... I know why... : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/hope.gif And no, DTS 13 is not a tehtar mode...
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 4, 2004
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          --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Dave <david.vdpeet@m...> wrote:
          > calwen76 wrote:
          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/files/calwen76/hope.gif
          > >
          > > 1. orthographic tehtar mode (DTS 10)
          > > 2. pronunciation tehtar mode (DTS 13)
          > > 4. orthographic full mode (DTS 48)
          > > 5. pronunciation full mode (DTS 24)
          > >
          > > Lucy
          > >
          > Tried to have a look at your suggestions, but--document not
          found :).
          > Just one question: Are you sure that the Book of Mazarbul (middle)
          page
          > (DTS 13) is in a tehtar mode?

          It's wierd... I know why... :

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/hope.gif

          And no, DTS 13 is not a tehtar mode... :-/ But I don't know what
          sample do we have of this mode? ... Do you know?

          Lucy
        • Dave
          ... [That s a good question. Is there any sample of a fullblown pronunciation tehtar mode ? The LotR Title Page Inscription (bottom) or the Brogan Tengwa
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 4, 2004
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            calwen76 wrote:

            >
            > --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Dave <david.vdpeet@m...> wrote:
            > > calwen76 wrote:
            > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/files/calwen76/hope.gif
            > > >
            > > > 1. orthographic tehtar mode (DTS 10)
            > > > 2. pronunciation tehtar mode (DTS 13)
            > > > 4. orthographic full mode (DTS 48)
            > > > 5. pronunciation full mode (DTS 24)
            > > >
            > > > Lucy
            > > >
            > > Tried to have a look at your suggestions, but--document not
            > found :).
            > > Just one question: Are you sure that the Book of Mazarbul (middle)
            > page
            > > (DTS 13) is in a tehtar mode?
            >
            > It's wierd... I know why... :
            >
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/hope.gif
            >
            > And no, DTS 13 is not a tehtar mode... :-/ But I don't know what
            > sample do we have of this mode? ... Do you know?
            >
            > Lucy
            >
            >
            [That's a good question. Is there any sample of a fullblown
            "pronunciation tehtar mode"? The "LotR Title Page Inscription" (bottom)
            or the "Brogan Tengwa Greetings" (the middle one, wedged between a cirth
            and a full mode one) are mostly orthographic, I'd say, though they do
            feature under-dots for silent "e", which to me looks like a phonetic
            spelling (otherwise, you could just use the accent [E-tehta], if
            necessary on a short carrier).

            Well, actually, you might want to check out Mach's paper on a phonetic
            English tehtar mode (which you can find at this site:
            http://www.geocities.com/tengwar2001/). Therein he mentions as examples
            for phonetic tehtar modes: DTS 39 (AI [184]), DTS 41 (AI [186]), and DTS
            58 (Howlett Rivendell Inscriptions). Not much to go on, really, but he
            proposes to consult other tehtar modes to come up with "solutions" for
            sounds not represented in these samples. Anyway, you might want to have
            a look at it.

            About your fourth suggestion (phonetic full mode, according to DTS 24,
            Emergence of Treebeard), I think the "o" in hope should be represented
            with a vilya plus the modified U-curl (or "reversed tilde") for
            following "u/w", not by anna plus following "u/w" sign. It's the pretty
            much same sound as occurs twice in _Frodo_, for example, and in the
            Treebeard page that's written as I just described, with vilya +
            following "u/w" sign on top.]

            Hísilómë




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • calwen76
            ... 24, ... represented ... pretty ... Correct, thanks, here s the reversed file: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/hope.gif Lucy
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 5, 2004
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              --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Dave <david.vdpeet@m...> wrote:
              > About your fourth suggestion (phonetic full mode, according to DTS
              24,
              > Emergence of Treebeard), I think the "o" in hope should be
              represented
              > with a vilya plus the modified U-curl (or "reversed tilde") for
              > following "u/w", not by anna plus following "u/w" sign. It's the
              pretty
              > much same sound as occurs twice in _Frodo_, for example, and in the
              > Treebeard page that's written as I just described, with vilya +
              > following "u/w" sign on top.]

              Correct, thanks, here's the reversed file:

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/files/calwen76/hope.gif

              Lucy
            • j_mach_wust
              ... The modified u-curl isn t used for a vowel tehta in any mode I know of. The normal o-tehtar would fit better. And even though both varieties are attested,
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 5, 2004
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                --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "calwen76" <calwen.rudh@s...> wrote:

                > 2. pronunciation tehtar mode (DTS 13)

                The modified u-curl isn't used for a vowel tehta in any mode I know
                of. The normal o-tehtar would fit better. And even though both
                varieties are attested, I'd prefer the tengwar-tehtar order where the
                tehtar are placed on the following tengwar. That means, I'd take a
                vala, not an úre: 9yYq

                ---------------------------
                j. 'mach' wust
                http://machhezan.tripod.com
                ---------------------------
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