Re: final "R" tengwa in second and third version of King's Letter
- This once again gets back to the idea that the R-rule us an
expression of RP. In R-less dialects, R's are inserted between
vowels and the rule is called "intervocalic R insertion" (that is if
I remember my phonetics training correctly). An example of
intervocalic R insertion is that RP speaking Brits and speakers of
Bostonian American English will both say, "CubaR is a communist
country" instead of "Cuba is a communist country".
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Dave" <david.vdpeet@m...> wrote:
> Thanks for clarifying that, the "tengwar" in question certainly
look like óre amended to rómen.
> This has also lead me to some new thoughts and questions.
> Are we to deduce from this usage that in this mode "R" should be
(by Tolkien's intentions) spelled with a rómen _whenever_ it is
followed by a vowel (regardless of its position: medial or final),
i.e. for final "R" the first sound/letter of the next word has also
to be taken into account?
> If so, Tolkien failed to follow this through in all instances: for
example, in the first copy, _Gondor_ is spelled with óre (though
followed by _and_), and in the third letter, _Mayor_ is spelled with
óre (though followed by _of the_). Maybe in these instances Tolkien
forgot to apply the above "rule", if indeed he had such a rule in
> Only in the second copy (as given in AI) is "R" before a vowel
(medial _and_ final) consistently written as rómen. This is,
counting the "peculiar" tengwa as a rómen in accordance with your
explanation that here Tolkien turned óre into rómen. The fact that
he made this change in several instances (at least once in all three
copies) would seem to indicate that indeed he felt that in this
mode, "R" was always to be represented by a rómen when followed by a
vowel, even finally.
> In Quenya, the spelling rules for "R" generally go as follows
(attested for example in the "Jacket Namárie"): Rómen at the
beginning of a word (where "R" it is invariably followed by a vowel)
and medially if followed by a vowel (usually wedged between two
vowels). In all other instances óre is always used, i.e. medially
when followed by a consonant and finally _regardless_ of what
sound/letter the next word begins with (cf. _rámar aldaron_ etc).
> In the Beleriandic Sindarin mode (full mode), rómen is always used
for "R" in any context simply because óre is reserved for "N",
cf. "A Elbereth" or the inscription on the Gate of Moria. Most
examples of Tolkien writing Sindarin with Tengwar seem to be in this
> With the exception of----the third copy of the "King's Letter". I
am now talking about the Sindarin part:
> here, using the "Standard" Sindarin mode (the Mode of Gondor using
diacritic signs [tehtar] for the vowels), Tolkien lets rómen appear
several times medially before a consonant, which seems not attested
elsewhere(?). Examples for such use of rómen in case of non-final,
pre-consonantal "R" include _Aragorn Arathornion Edhelharn_, _Arnor_
or _Cordof_. Then again, he (only) once uses óre in similar
positions, e.g _iCherdir_, possibly a "mistake"?
> As for "R" in a non-final position followed by a vowel, rómen is
consistenly used (_Aragorn Arathornion_, _erin_, _aníra_ etc.).
> Final "R" is always spelled with an óre, regardless of which
sound/letter the next words begins with (e.g. _Ar Elanor_, _egor
ben_, _ar Arnor ar Hír iMbair_, _Elessar Telcontar Aragorn_ etc).
> There are no examples in this text for initial "R".
> Final question: is it thus legitimate to deduce the following
spelling rules for "R" in the Mode of Gondor ("Sindarin Tehta Mode")
and "R" in the "King's Letter" English mode:
> a) Initial "R": ? (probably rómen, partly because initial "R" is
always followed by a vowel ["RH" does not really count as a
consonant cluster I assume?]).
> b) Medial/non-final "R" before consonant: well, IF we can assume
(??) that the medial "R" in _iCherdir_ is spelled with óre
by "mistake" (since in all other instances "R" is spelled with rómen
in this position), then we could say that (quite unlike in Quenya or
in the English mode employed for the "Westron" parts of the "King's
Letter") in this context "R" is also spelled with rómen.
> c) Medial/non-final "R" before vowel: always represented by rómen.
> d) Final "R" (regardless of whether following word begins with
vowel or consonant): always spelled with óre.
> In summary, a more concise expression of the above rules could go
like this: In the Mode of Gondor (Tehta Sindarin Mode), every non-
final "R" is represented by rómen, every final "R" is spelled with
> (We cannot be a 100% sure about initial "R" I guess, and we have
to count _iCherdir as a "mistake".)
> As for the "English mode" employed in the "King's Letter" (all
three versions), we could say this:
> a) Initial "R": rómen.
> b) Medial/non-final "R" before consonant: óre.
> c) Medial/non-final "R" before vowel: rómen.
> d) Final "R": óre if the following word begins with a consonant
(as in _Master Samwise_), rómen if the following words begins with a
vowel (as in _Mayor of the Shire_). BUT as I've pointed out above,
this is not followed through consistently in the "King's Letter".
> Do these rules look reasonable?
> (BTW, seems that the "R" is missing completely in the word
_Strider_ in the third copy.)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Arden R. Smith
> To: email@example.com
> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 11:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [elfscript] final "R" tengwa in second and third
version of King's Letter
> On Oct 19, 2004, at 4:21 AM, hisilome wrote:
> > Does anybody know what that tengwa is, what it's called, and
why it is
> > used here? Does it appear anywhere else in Tolkien's writings?
> The tengwa used in these words is called "a mistake". In each
> instances, Tolkien started to write an óre, since the _r_ was
> word-final, but realizing that the next word began with a vowel,
> changed it as well as he could into a rómen. Further examples
> in the word "Mayor" in the first and second versions.
> Arden R. Smith erilaz@e...
> Perilme metto aimaktur perperienta.
> --Elvish proverb
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]