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Re: telco, lúva, hwarma?

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  • laurifindil
    ... something ... elements of ... (Qu. ... but ... The word appears in _The ... 386), ... reference ... (p. ... (in ... that ... know) ... published or ...
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 11, 2004
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      --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Arden R. Smith <erilaz@e...> wrote:
      >
      > I was recently reading Helmut W. Pesch's book, _Elbisch_, and
      something
      > on p. 184 struck me as very odd. Pesch describes the three
      elements of
      > which the tengwar are comprised as "Stamm" (Qu. _telco_), "Bogen"
      (Qu.
      > _lúva_), and "Querbalken" (Qu. _hwarma_). The _telco_ (stem) and
      > _lúva_ (bow) are known from Appendix E to _The Lord of the Rings_,
      but
      > where did this _hwarma_ come from?
      The word appears in _The
      > Etymologies_, of course, in the entry SKWAR- (_The Lost Road_, p.
      386),
      > but there it is glossed simply as "crossbar", without any
      reference
      > whatsoever to the tengwar.
      >
      > Pesch repeats this information in his Quenya dictionary section
      (p.
      > 286), where he glosses _hwarma_ as "Querholz, Sprosse. _Ling._
      > Querbalken (der Schrift)" [i.e. "crossbeam, rung. _Ling._ crossbar
      (in
      > writing)"].
      >
      > However convenient it might be to apply this word to the stroke
      that
      > closes the bow of a Feanorian letter, there is not (as far as I
      know)
      > any justification of this anywhere in Tolkien's writings,
      published or
      > unpublished. Does anyone know where Pesch might have got this
      idea?
      > Or is it just something that he dreamed up himself?

      Comes from ? From his poor imagination... indeed, I guess.

      > This, I think, is the greatest flaw of Pesch's book in general:
      he
      > frequently presents modified forms and hypothetical information
      without
      > any indication that they are just that. At least he gives
      references
      > to the primary materials, so readers can double-check his
      information.

      Not quite, he apparently did not read the primary materials. His
      book have the same page errors that in one of Helge's Dictionnary...
      see amloth/ambalotse.

      E. Kloczko
    • Arden R. Smith
      ... I suspected that he got most (if not all) of his information second-hand, but thanks for the proof! ***************************************************
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 11, 2004
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        On Sep 11, 2004, at 6:33 AM, laurifindil wrote:

        > Not quite, he apparently did not read the primary materials. His
        > book have the same page errors that in one of Helge's Dictionnary...
        > see amloth/ambalotse.

        I suspected that he got most (if not all) of his information
        second-hand, but thanks for the proof!


        ***************************************************
        Arden R. Smith erilaz@...

        Perilme metto aimaktur perperienta.
        --Elvish proverb

        ***************************************************
      • Aida Djikic
        ... if you re not an authority in this matter. I doubt there are many who would say they are. In any case, thank you for the offer, I m looking forward to
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 29, 2004
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          calwen76 <calwen.rudh@...> wrote:
          --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Aida Djikic <aidadjikic@y...> wrote:


          > Hvala, Lucy!
          >
          > I would be very interested to see what have you come up with, even
          if you're not an authority in this matter. I doubt there are many
          who would say they are. In any case,
          thank you for the offer, I'm looking forward to hearing from you!
          >
          > Cao i hocu!
          > Aida

          Okay, give me some time and I'll work on it :) And, the only
          authority is in fact Proffessor Tolkien only... unfortunately not
          among us anymore.



          Zdravo opet!

          I had some time to work on a possible Bosnian Tengwar mode, so I was wondering whether it would be possible to send it to you personally as an attachment so that you can review it and let me know if I made mistakes in the process.

          Hvala i pozdrav!
          Aida



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