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Re: Difference in tengwa for english and quenya modes

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  • calwen76
    ... if you re not an authority in this matter. I doubt there are mabny who would say they are. I m still at the stage of memorizing the Tengwar names and
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 9, 2004
      --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Aida Djikic <aidadjikic@y...> wrote:
      > Hvala, Lucy!
      >
      > I would be very interested to see what have you come up with, even
      if you're not an authority in this matter. I doubt there are mabny
      who would say they are. I'm still at the stage of memorizing the
      Tengwar names and terminology. If I'm correcet, omatehtar would mean
      representing vowels as full letters, is that right? In any case,
      thank you for the offer, I'm looking forward to hearing from you!
      >
      > Cao i hocu!
      > Aida

      Okay, give me some time and I'll work on it :) And, the only
      authority is in fact Proffessor Tolkien only... unfortunately not
      among us anymore.

      Concerning ómatehtar: no, ómatehtar are signs for vowels written out
      above or below the tengwar in tehta modes (as seen for example in the
      King's Letter I and III, SD:130,131). In full modes (for expample,
      the Moria Gate transcription), vowels are written with tengwar (as
      the consonants are). Full modes can also include tehtar signs e.g.
      the sign called _andaith_ (long mark - used for prolonging the vowel,
      e.g. _á_) - but these are not ómatehtar. In short: ómatehtar are
      signs for vowels in tehta modes.

      Hope I made myself clear. If you'd be interested, here is my guide to
      Tengwar (in Czech):

      http://sweb.cz/calwen.rudh/tengwar.htm

      Pozdravljam,
      Lucy
    • laurifindil
      ... something ... elements of ... (Qu. ... but ... The word appears in _The ... 386), ... reference ... (p. ... (in ... that ... know) ... published or ...
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 11, 2004
        --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Arden R. Smith <erilaz@e...> wrote:
        >
        > I was recently reading Helmut W. Pesch's book, _Elbisch_, and
        something
        > on p. 184 struck me as very odd. Pesch describes the three
        elements of
        > which the tengwar are comprised as "Stamm" (Qu. _telco_), "Bogen"
        (Qu.
        > _lúva_), and "Querbalken" (Qu. _hwarma_). The _telco_ (stem) and
        > _lúva_ (bow) are known from Appendix E to _The Lord of the Rings_,
        but
        > where did this _hwarma_ come from?
        The word appears in _The
        > Etymologies_, of course, in the entry SKWAR- (_The Lost Road_, p.
        386),
        > but there it is glossed simply as "crossbar", without any
        reference
        > whatsoever to the tengwar.
        >
        > Pesch repeats this information in his Quenya dictionary section
        (p.
        > 286), where he glosses _hwarma_ as "Querholz, Sprosse. _Ling._
        > Querbalken (der Schrift)" [i.e. "crossbeam, rung. _Ling._ crossbar
        (in
        > writing)"].
        >
        > However convenient it might be to apply this word to the stroke
        that
        > closes the bow of a Feanorian letter, there is not (as far as I
        know)
        > any justification of this anywhere in Tolkien's writings,
        published or
        > unpublished. Does anyone know where Pesch might have got this
        idea?
        > Or is it just something that he dreamed up himself?

        Comes from ? From his poor imagination... indeed, I guess.

        > This, I think, is the greatest flaw of Pesch's book in general:
        he
        > frequently presents modified forms and hypothetical information
        without
        > any indication that they are just that. At least he gives
        references
        > to the primary materials, so readers can double-check his
        information.

        Not quite, he apparently did not read the primary materials. His
        book have the same page errors that in one of Helge's Dictionnary...
        see amloth/ambalotse.

        E. Kloczko
      • Arden R. Smith
        ... I suspected that he got most (if not all) of his information second-hand, but thanks for the proof! ***************************************************
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 11, 2004
          On Sep 11, 2004, at 6:33 AM, laurifindil wrote:

          > Not quite, he apparently did not read the primary materials. His
          > book have the same page errors that in one of Helge's Dictionnary...
          > see amloth/ambalotse.

          I suspected that he got most (if not all) of his information
          second-hand, but thanks for the proof!


          ***************************************************
          Arden R. Smith erilaz@...

          Perilme metto aimaktur perperienta.
          --Elvish proverb

          ***************************************************
        • Aida Djikic
          ... if you re not an authority in this matter. I doubt there are many who would say they are. In any case, thank you for the offer, I m looking forward to
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 29, 2004
            calwen76 <calwen.rudh@...> wrote:
            --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Aida Djikic <aidadjikic@y...> wrote:


            > Hvala, Lucy!
            >
            > I would be very interested to see what have you come up with, even
            if you're not an authority in this matter. I doubt there are many
            who would say they are. In any case,
            thank you for the offer, I'm looking forward to hearing from you!
            >
            > Cao i hocu!
            > Aida

            Okay, give me some time and I'll work on it :) And, the only
            authority is in fact Proffessor Tolkien only... unfortunately not
            among us anymore.



            Zdravo opet!

            I had some time to work on a possible Bosnian Tengwar mode, so I was wondering whether it would be possible to send it to you personally as an attachment so that you can review it and let me know if I made mistakes in the process.

            Hvala i pozdrav!
            Aida



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