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Re: My Name :P

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  • laurifindil
    ... Tengwar is a complicated matter indeed. Most do not have the single idea on how its a complex and a changefull matter. So far, I am not into what peolpe
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 8, 2004
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      --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Anja Johansson <anjjo615@s...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Thank you for the reply. I still have some questions...
      >
      > >All r's in Tolkien Elvish are thrilled.
      >
      > Then why do people insist on writing Aragorn with the _óre_
      > tengwar? Is it possible to use that one instead of the thrilled r? 


      Tengwar is a complicated matter indeed. Most do not have the single
      idea on how its a complex and a changefull matter.

      So far, I am not into "what peolpe want", but to what Tolkien wrote.

      If you care about Tolkien's tengwar you can forget about what you
      read on Internet and most of all about : "what peolple want to". :)

      Aragorn can be written in many ways, since there are many modes of
      the tengwar.

      The tengwar have been made by Feanor/Tolkien to look "nice" and not
      as a full _phonetical alphabet_.
      The "right way of writting" or ortho-graphia is a Modern Invention
      (but even the Romans had a few problem with it:).

      In the Middle Age you could choose the way you wanted to write : the
      rules were not as tight as they have become (but some rules were
      uptight of cause). The same goes for the sarati and also for the
      tengwar.

      You want to write Aragorn ? Look into HOME 9.

      > >> Hannon le!
      > >That sentence is NOT Tolkien-Elvish.
      > >ejk
      >
      > OK..? I am a bit confused about this because on www.elvish.org it
      > is listed under Sindarin and no comments are made that it would
      > be incorrect. What about most of the other movie lines? Are they
      > correct?

      Movie ??? What movie ??? :) :) :)

      Tolkien wrote books not movies.

      You want to learn about Elvish and Tengwar ? Forget the Movies and
      get down to Tolkien's books. :)

      Have a nice day,

      E. Kloczko
    • j_mach_wust
      ... I d rather say that you have to be very critical about what you read on internet, but some sites are worth consideration. ... Feanor is said to have been
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 9, 2004
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        --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "laurifindil" <ejk@f...> wrote:
        > Tengwar is a complicated matter indeed. Most do not have the single
        > idea on how its a complex and a changefull matter.
        >
        > So far, I am not into "what peolpe want", but to what Tolkien wrote.
        >
        > If you care about Tolkien's tengwar you can forget about what you
        > read on Internet and most of all about : "what people want to". :)

        I'd rather say that you have to be very critical about what you read
        on internet, but some sites are worth consideration.

        > Aragorn can be written in many ways, since there are many modes of
        > the tengwar.
        >
        > The tengwar have been made by Feanor/Tolkien to look "nice" and not
        > as a full _phonetical alphabet_.

        Feanor is said to have been more concerned with matters of esthetics
        than of spelling. However, there's much phonetic knowledge in the
        design of the tengwar with their correspondance of shape features
        with sound features. I believe that this is the reason why tengwar
        are considered a _phonetical alphabet_, which would be a tautology
        otherwise, unless you're referring to a cientific notation system
        like the IPA script.

        For sure, Tolkien's used the tengwar for phonemical representation of
        different languages, e.g. English or Quenya.

        > The "right way of writting" or ortho-graphia is a Modern Invention
        > (but even the Romans had a few problem with it:).

        So what? The "right way" of using the tengwar is to imitate Tolkien's
        example. That is, by an examination of his samples we can reconstruct
        a set of rules that would produce identical samples.

        This is different from Tolkien's languages, where reconstructions of
        the rules is less safe since it'd require much more material than we
        have.

        > In the Middle Age you could choose the way you wanted to write :
        > the rules were not as tight as they have become (but some rules
        > were uptight of cause). The same goes for the sarati and also for
        > the tengwar.

        Where could this be affirmed in Tolkien's writings?

        ---------------------------
        j. 'mach' wust
        http://machhezan.tripod.com
        ---------------------------
      • Anja Johansson
        ... So you do not recommend the Sindarin Course by Thorsten? Writing sindarin only based on what Tolkien clearly stated would be fairly difficult, which is why
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 10, 2004
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          > If you care about Tolkien's tengwar you can forget about what you
          > read on Internet and most of all about : "what peolple want to". :)

          So you do not recommend the Sindarin Course by Thorsten? Writing sindarin only based on what Tolkien clearly stated would be fairly difficult, which is why I prefer this course.

          > Movie ??? What movie ??? :) :) :)
          >
          > Tolkien wrote books not movies.

          Yes indeed, but he was thrilled about the idea of making the story into a movie as far as I've heard. I do not intend to become a Tolkien expert, I just want to be able to understand the movie lines better and to be able to write small lines myself. I am as much a movie fan as a book fan, although I did read the books before I watched the movies. I do not consider the books "holy" and I don't find it wrong to adapt neither story nor language to the purpose of making a movie. After all, it is "just" a work of fiction (Note that I'm a huge fan of Tolkien and admire him immensly!! No offense anyone!). However, I know that David Salo worked on the movie lines and I believed he was an expert and so I thought the movie lines were more or less correct.

          Thank you,

          Anja aka Lúthien
        • laurifindil
          ... you ... to . :) ... sindarin only based on what Tolkien clearly stated would be fairly difficult, which is why I prefer this course. There can only one
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 11, 2004
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            --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Anja Johansson <anjjo615@s...>
            wrote:
            > > If you care about Tolkien's tengwar you can forget about what
            you
            > > read on Internet and most of all about : "what peolple want
            to". :)
            >
            > So you do not recommend the Sindarin Course by Thorsten? Writing
            sindarin only based on what Tolkien clearly stated would be fairly
            difficult, which is why I prefer this course.

            There can only one language called Sindarin : the one Tolkien
            invented.
            Mr Thorsten's creation (it can't be called a "language") is *not*
            Sindarin.

            You are free to prefer this and that, and even spend your time as
            you will. And *I* do the same.

            One last thing, this ML is dedicated to *Tolkien's* Writings Systems
            and not anybody else.

            Cheers,

            E. Kloczko
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