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The spelling of RY

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  • Helge K. Fauskanger
    Arden R.Smith wrote (regarding why he doesn t think _arya_ is a single ... a following-y tehta when every other letter of the tyelpetéma makes use of the
    Message 1 of 2 , Aug 14, 2004
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      Arden R.Smith wrote (regarding why he doesn't think _arya_ is a single
      letter for _ry_):

      > (1) It is not logical that _ry_ should be represented by a tengwa without
      a following-y tehta when every other letter of the tyelpetéma
      makes use of the following-y tehta.

      > (2) It is a fact that whenever _arda_ is used as a tengwa-name (in both
      published and unpublished sources), it is always applied to tengwa #26.
      Similarly, every occurrence of the tengwa-name _arya_ outside of _The
      Etymologies_ is applied to a tengwa (either #21 or #25) with a following-y
      tehta either above or below it.

      All right, I see your point. So both _óre_ (#21) and _rómen_ (#25) may be
      combined with the Y-dots to produce a sign for _ry_? As far as I can
      remember, the sole published example is the one I referred to the other
      day: _rómen_ with underposed Y-dots in one (and only one) version of the
      Namárie transcript in RGEO.

      This sole ("canonical") example is somewhat surprising. Quenya [rj] is, I
      think, best seen as a consonant cluster rather than a unitary phoneme, and
      before another consonant, R is normally expressed by óre rather than rómen.
      It should hardly make any difference that the following consonant is
      expressed as a diacritical mark rather than a separate letter.

      Moreover, at least as far as underposed dots are concerned, there is more
      room for them below óre! The combination rómen + Y-dots is somewhat clumsy,
      because of the downward curl of the Tengwa itself, whereas óre is easily
      combined with a couple of underposed dots. Is there any clear evidence for
      the _tyelpetéma_ use of óre rather than rómen in late Quenya -- about
      contemporary with, or later than, the RGEO transcript? There are a number
      of obvious errors in this transcript, so its authority is sometimes
      questionable. (After all, Tolkien had no assistant who could proof-read his
      Elvish compositions or Tengwar transcriptions...I think he could have used
      an Elvish-literate secretary, but in his lifetime so little material had
      been published that he would have had to educate such a person himself!)

      - HKF
    • Arden R. Smith
      ... See the cover of VT #8 for an example with _óre_ (and dots above the tengwa). Granted, this is not a facsimile of Tolkien s calligraphy, but this
      Message 2 of 2 , Aug 14, 2004
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        On Aug 14, 2004, at 3:45 PM, Helge K. Fauskanger wrote:

        > All right, I see your point. So both _óre_ (#21) and _rómen_ (#25) may
        > be
        > combined with the Y-dots to produce a sign for _ry_? As far as I can
        > remember, the sole published example is the one I referred to the other
        > day: _rómen_ with underposed Y-dots in one (and only one) version of
        > the
        > Namárie transcript in RGEO.

        See the cover of VT #8 for an example with _óre_ (and dots above the
        tengwa). Granted, this is not a facsimile of Tolkien's calligraphy,
        but this particular form of the letter _arya_ does appear the source
        manuscript.

        A calligraphic excerpt from _Namárie_, dated 5/2/1966, which appears in
        the M. Hime auction catalogue, _Eorclanstanas, or, The Hobbitiana_
        (1980), makes use of _óre_ in the spelling of _ómáryo_. Curiously, the
        tehta used there (as in the first occurrence of _yéni_ on the page) is
        a subscript inverted a-tehta. However, the usual underposed y-dots are
        used in the second _yéni_, _yuldar_, and _yassen_.

        > Moreover, at least as far as underposed dots are concerned, there is
        > more
        > room for them below óre! The combination rómen + Y-dots is somewhat
        > clumsy,
        > because of the downward curl of the Tengwa itself, whereas óre is
        > easily
        > combined with a couple of underposed dots. Is there any clear evidence
        > for
        > the _tyelpetéma_ use of óre rather than rómen in late Quenya -- about
        > contemporary with, or later than, the RGEO transcript?

        Taking a quick look through the unpublished tengwar materials, I don't
        see any examples that are demonstrably later than the RGEO transcript,
        but there are several post-LotR examples.

        ***************************************************
        Arden R. Smith erilaz@...

        Perilme metto aimaktur perperienta.
        --Elvish proverb

        ***************************************************
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