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Re: [elfscript] text checking

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  • Johanna
    Aiya! ... here :) ... erm yes but you could have told us *what* you have transcribed so we can tell you if it is correct... Well, with a bit of guessing I coul
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 24, 2004
      Aiya!

      wendy wrote:
      > Hi does anyone know where i can get my text checked to make sure that
      > it is accurate?

      here :)

      > I have had a go at transcribing our family names
      > using the font tengwar annatar and would like to ensure that it is
      > correct before i go any further. So far I have got
      > qlR.Îj z6É81lE z.Y6lTl zlTklE] y2${l w]T.Î1 t5È

      erm yes but you could have told us *what* you have transcribed so we can
      tell you if it is correct...

      Well, with a bit of guessing I coul decipher "Wendy" (OK that one wasnt
      so difficult to guess ;)), something like "Krista", and maybe "Paul"...??

      I dont understand which mode you used - I suppose that you have used the
      Sindarin/english mode (vowels written over the following consonant), but
      you have mixed it up with vowel tengwar from the mode of beleriand (for
      example the tengwa that looks like a "c" does not occur in any tehta
      mode I know of)

      Another thing I remarked is that you used yanta for "y" in "Wendy" but
      here the y is a vowel, and yanta is only used for y as a consonant (like
      in the word "you").

      I can't help you with all the names because I dont know all of them.
      But "Wendy" I would write like this:

      n2P§$`B

      that last letter is an "i" tehta on a short carrier - "Wendi"

      I would propose you to take a look at these sites if you have not
      already read them, maybe you will find them helpful ;)
      http://hem.passagen.se/mansb/at/
      http://www.sci.fi/~alboin/tengwartutorial.htm

      I hope you are not totally disappointed now, just try it again and I am
      sure you will get it right sooner or later!

      Namárie,
      Johanna / Lindóriel
    • j_mach_wust
      ... Tolkien has used this sign for representing a vowel digraph that ends with in an English orthographic tehtar mode: In the word _earth_ in DTS 62. I
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 24, 2004
        Johanna wrote:
        > you have mixed it up with vowel tengwar from the mode of beleriand (for
        > example the tengwa that looks like a "c" does not occur in any tehta
        > mode I know of)

        Tolkien has used this sign for representing a vowel digraph that ends
        with <a> in an English orthographic tehtar mode: In the word _earth_
        in DTS 62. I prefer this transcription to the equally attested way of
        transcribing vowel digraphs with two tehtar, since it conforms to the
        general tendency of having only one vowel sign per syllable.

        ---------------------------
        j. 'mach' wust
        http://machhezan.tripod.com
        ---------------------------
      • wendy beautyman
        thank you so much for looking at this for me, at least i know i am on the right lines, as you correctly surmised the names are Paul, Kirsti, Corey, Kezia and
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 25, 2004
          thank you so much for looking at this for me, at least i know i am on the right lines, as you correctly surmised the names are Paul, Kirsti, Corey, Kezia and Wendy Beautyman, i used the tengwar online transcriber and then altered it using the tengwar annatar font so that it would look prettier, I will do some more investigation into this but its so hard to know where to start seeing as this is my first time attempting to transcribe anything. Once again thank you for looking at it for me, i really appreciate any help at all
          Wendy

          Johanna <j.pfleger@...> wrote:
          Aiya!

          wendy wrote:
          > Hi does anyone know where i can get my text checked to make sure that
          > it is accurate?

          here :)

          > I have had a go at transcribing our family names
          > using the font tengwar annatar and would like to ensure that it is
          > correct before i go any further. So far I have got
          > qlR.Îj z6É81lE z.Y6lTl zlTklE] y2${l w]T.Î1 t5È

          erm yes but you could have told us *what* you have transcribed so we can
          tell you if it is correct...

          Well, with a bit of guessing I coul decipher "Wendy" (OK that one wasnt
          so difficult to guess ;)), something like "Krista", and maybe "Paul"...??

          I dont understand which mode you used - I suppose that you have used the
          Sindarin/english mode (vowels written over the following consonant), but
          you have mixed it up with vowel tengwar from the mode of beleriand (for
          example the tengwa that looks like a "c" does not occur in any tehta
          mode I know of)

          Another thing I remarked is that you used yanta for "y" in "Wendy" but
          here the y is a vowel, and yanta is only used for y as a consonant (like
          in the word "you").

          I can't help you with all the names because I dont know all of them.
          But "Wendy" I would write like this:

          n2P§$`B

          that last letter is an "i" tehta on a short carrier - "Wendi"

          I would propose you to take a look at these sites if you have not
          already read them, maybe you will find them helpful ;)
          http://hem.passagen.se/mansb/at/
          http://www.sci.fi/~alboin/tengwartutorial.htm

          I hope you are not totally disappointed now, just try it again and I am
          sure you will get it right sooner or later!

          Namárie,
          Johanna / Lindóriel



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        • j_mach_wust
          ... I couldn t decipher the names but _Wendy_ which is transcribed wrong (if it were to be read out aloud, it d sound similar to _wendge_). The other names
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 25, 2004
            wendy beautyman wrote:
            > thank you so much for looking at this for me, at least i know i am
            > on the right lines, as you correctly surmised the names are Paul,
            > Kirsti, Corey, Kezia and Wendy Beautyman,

            I couldn't decipher the names but _Wendy_ which is transcribed wrong
            (if it were to be read out aloud, it'd sound similar to _wendge_).

            The other names read more or less like _peiwjl, krstai, kouriyy,
            kiyzaih, bihwjt mn_. Have you intended to make a phonetic
            transcription? Then you might want to have a look on what I've
            speculated on the phonetic tengwar modes:

            http://machhezan.tripod/phonetic_tengwar_modes/tehtar_27dec2003.pdf

            However, it's easier to transcribe according to traditional English
            orthography, mainly because this is combetter attested. You might have
            a look at the following post and at other posts that followed it:

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfscript/message/2525

            > i used the tengwar online transcriber

            I knew that it wasn't very accurate, but I didn't guess it were so bad.

            > and then altered it using the tengwar annatar font so
            > that it would look prettier, I will do some more investigation into
            > this but its so hard to know where to start seeing as this is my
            > first time attempting to transcribe anything.

            You've chosen a difficult start, but go on!

            ---------------------------
            j. 'mach' wust
            http://machhezan.tripod.com
            ---------------------------
          • Harri Perälä
            ... Well, the transcription was apparently made with Brendan Gordon s mode file English 2002 , which is not based on Tolkien s English modes. I don t know
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 25, 2004
              j_mach_wust wrote:
              > wendy beautyman wrote:
              >>i used the tengwar online transcriber
              > I knew that it wasn't very accurate, but I didn't guess it were so bad.

              Well, the transcription was apparently made with Brendan Gordon's mode
              file "English 2002", which is not based on Tolkien's English modes. I
              don't know what logic it follows, but a vowel letter is usually mapped
              to a combination of tengwa and tehta. Måns Björkman's mode file called
              "English" is based on the LotR title page and similar samples.

              Harri Perälä
            • wendy
              ... wrote:i take it that the online transcribers are not at all accurate then? I have looked at Måns Björkman s mode and had a look at how the transcription
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 25, 2004
                --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Harri Perälä <harri.perala@l...>
                wrote:i take it that the online transcribers are not at all accurate
                then? I have looked at Måns Björkman's mode and had a look at how the
                transcription looks using that but to be honest I dont know what im
                looking for or what it should look like the Måns Björkman's mode text
                looks like this
                q`CjU z6T81`B z7YlR z,R`B`C y2{$`Û w`V`C1UtØ5# but as i said its all
                a mystery to me which is why im so grateful for any help. I really
                want to get this correct the names im trying to transcribe are Paul,
                Kirsti Corey Kezia and Wendy Beautyman.
                Once again thanks for replying tomy enquiry and if its not too cheeky
                any further help would be gratefully accepted.
                > j_mach_wust wrote:
                > > wendy beautyman wrote:
                > >>i used the tengwar online transcriber
                > > I knew that it wasn't very accurate, but I didn't guess it were
                so bad.
                >
                > Well, the transcription was apparently made with Brendan Gordon's
                mode
                > file "English 2002", which is not based on Tolkien's English modes.
                I
                > don't know what logic it follows, but a vowel letter is usually
                mapped
                > to a combination of tengwa and tehta. Måns Björkman's mode file
                called
                > "English" is based on the LotR title page and similar samples.
                >
                > Harri Perälä
              • j_mach_wust
                ... Correct. Most of them have some bugs. If you want to be sure your transcription is correct, don t use them. ... This looks already much better. But the
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 25, 2004
                  wendy wrote:
                  > i take it that the online transcribers are not at all accurate then?

                  Correct. Most of them have some bugs. If you want to be sure your
                  transcription is correct, don't use them.

                  > I have looked at Måns Björkman's mode and had a look at how the
                  > transcription looks using that but to be honest I dont know what im
                  > looking for or what it should look like the Måns Björkman's mode
                  > text
                  > looks like this
                  > q`CjU z6T81`B z7YlR z,R`B`C y2{$`Û w`V`C1UtØ5#

                  This looks already much better. But the vowel digraphs! The second
                  vowels of _au_ and _ey_ should be transcribed with vala and anna. This
                  must be the major bug of that transcriber mode. And I'd place the
                  y-sign in _Beautyman_ on a short carrier, not on the following letter,
                  since it very obviously derives from _beauty-man_. This isn't really a
                  bug of that particular transcriber mode, but rather a general problem
                  with any stupid computer orthography (spell checking applications will
                  have similar problems).

                  ---------------------------
                  j. 'mach' wust
                  http://machhezan.tripod.com
                  ---------------------------
                • wendy beautyman
                  when you said : The second vowels of _au_ and _ey_ should be transcribed with vala and anna. And place the y-sign in _Beautyman_ on a short carrier, not on
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 25, 2004
                    when you said :"The second
                    vowels of _au_ and _ey_ should be transcribed with vala and anna. And place the
                    y-sign in _Beautyman_ on a short carrier, not on the following letter" could you give me an idea of what it should look like (sorry to keep imposing on you) but you obviously know heaps more about this than i do and i would value your help
                    many thanks
                    Wendy
                    j_mach_wust <machhezan@...> wrote:
                    wendy wrote:
                    > i take it that the online transcribers are not at all accurate then?

                    Correct. Most of them have some bugs. If you want to be sure your
                    transcription is correct, don't use them.

                    > I have looked at Måns Björkman's mode and had a look at how the
                    > transcription looks using that but to be honest I dont know what im
                    > looking for or what it should look like the Måns Björkman's mode
                    > text
                    > looks like this
                    > q`CjU z6T81`B z7YlR z,R`B`C y2{$`Û w`V`C1UtØ5#

                    This looks already much better. But the vowel digraphs! The second
                    vowels of _au_ and _ey_ should be transcribed with vala and anna. This
                    must be the major bug of that transcriber mode. And I'd place the
                    y-sign in _Beautyman_ on a short carrier, not on the following letter,
                    since it very obviously derives from _beauty-man_. This isn't really a
                    bug of that particular transcriber mode, but rather a general problem
                    with any stupid computer orthography (spell checking applications will
                    have similar problems).

                    ---------------------------
                    j. 'mach' wust
                    http://machhezan.tripod.com
                    ---------------------------




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                  • wendy
                    ... correct tranlation for Paul, Kirsti Corey Kezia Wendy Beautyman and a very nice person on the fanatics forum translation desk has transcribed the names for
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jul 27, 2004
                      --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, wendy beautyman
                      <wendy.beautyman@t...> wrote:
                      >i have been doing some more digging around trying to find the
                      correct tranlation for Paul, Kirsti Corey Kezia Wendy Beautyman and a
                      very nice person on the fanatics forum translation desk has
                      transcribed the names for me as being
                      > q.Ej
                      z7T81`B
                      z~N7`B
                      ziR`B`C
                      y2{`B
                      wl1Ut%5#
                      I was wondering if anyone could confirm that these are indeed
                      correct? Thanks very much
                      Wendy
                      >
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
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                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Melroch 'Aestan
                      ... You seem to have forgot the vowel sign in y2{$`B. Also IMHO it should be w.G1t%5# for Beautyman , i.e. as biwtiman , and I would write ziRÏ`C kezya
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jul 27, 2004
                        wendy wrote:
                        > --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, wendy beautyman
                        > <wendy.beautyman@t...> wrote:
                        >
                        >>i have been doing some more digging around trying to find the
                        >
                        > correct tranlation for Paul, Kirsti Corey Kezia Wendy Beautyman and a
                        > very nice person on the fanatics forum translation desk has
                        > transcribed the names for me as being
                        >
                        >>q.Ej
                        >
                        > z7T81`B
                        > z~N7`B
                        > ziR`B`C
                        > y2{`B
                        > wl1Ut%5#
                        > I was wondering if anyone could confirm that these are indeed
                        > correct? Thanks very much
                        > Wendy

                        You seem to have forgot the vowel sign in y2{$`B.

                        Also IMHO it should be w.G1t%5# for 'Beautyman',
                        i.e. as "biwtiman",

                        and I would write ziRÏ`C "kezya" for 'Kezia', but that's more a
                        matter of taste.

                        --

                        /BP 8^)
                        --
                        B.Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~__
                        A h-ammen ledin i phith! \ \
                        __ ____ ____ _____________ ____ __ __ __ / /
                        \ \/___ \\__ \ /___ _____/\ \\__ \\ \ \ \\ \ / /
                        / / / / / \ / /Melroch\ \_/ // / / // / / /
                        / /___/ /_ / /\ \ / /'Aestan ~\_ // /__/ // /__/ /
                        /_________//_/ \_\/ /Eowine __ / / \___/\_\\___/\_\
                        Gwaedhvenn Angeliniel\ \______/ /a/ /_h-adar Merthol naun
                        ~~~~~~~~~Kuinondil~~~\________/~~\__/~~~Noolendur~~~~~~
                        || Lenda lenda pellalenda pellatellenda kuivie aiya! ||
                        "A coincidence, as we say in Middle-Earth" (JRR Tolkien)
                      • Melroch 'Aestan
                        ... Dangit, I forgot that Kezia should be spelled with *z*, so it should be z,R`B`C or z,RÏ`C ! -- /BP 8^) -- B.Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jul 27, 2004
                          Melroch 'Aestan wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > You seem to have forgot the vowel sign in y2{$`B.
                          >
                          > Also IMHO it should be w.G1t%5# for 'Beautyman',
                          > i.e. as "biwtiman",
                          >
                          > and I would write ziRÏ`C "kezya" for 'Kezia', but that's more a
                          > matter of taste.
                          >

                          Dangit, I forgot that Kezia should be spelled with *z*,
                          so it should be z,R`B`C or z,RÏ`C !

                          --

                          /BP 8^)
                          --
                          B.Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~__
                          A h-ammen ledin i phith! \ \
                          __ ____ ____ _____________ ____ __ __ __ / /
                          \ \/___ \\__ \ /___ _____/\ \\__ \\ \ \ \\ \ / /
                          / / / / / \ / /Melroch\ \_/ // / / // / / /
                          / /___/ /_ / /\ \ / /'Aestan ~\_ // /__/ // /__/ /
                          /_________//_/ \_\/ /Eowine __ / / \___/\_\\___/\_\
                          Gwaedhvenn Angeliniel\ \______/ /a/ /_h-adar Merthol naun
                          ~~~~~~~~~Kuinondil~~~\________/~~\__/~~~Noolendur~~~~~~
                          || Lenda lenda pellalenda pellatellenda kuivie aiya! ||
                          "A coincidence, as we say in Middle-Earth" (JRR Tolkien)
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