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Re: [elfscript]Quenya Numbers??

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  • machhezan
    ... Letters ... That s a very good example! I wasn t conscious but of the counterexample, the Quenya mode words (though not classical Quenya mode) within the
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 11, 2004
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      --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Harri Perälä <harri.perala@l...> wrote:
      > If I'm not mistaken, there are no examples of how of such "foreign"
      > sounds and combinations would be handled in the middle of a document
      > written in the classical Quenya mode. If the problematic word or name
      > was in a language that had a standard tengwar spelling, it would seem
      > reasonable to write it according to that mode.


      > I actually might have expected "Elessar Telcontar" in the King's
      Letters
      > to be written in the classical mode that App. E calls "the standard
      > spelling of Quenya", but it's in the same mode as the rest of the
      > document. From a modern perspective, this is maybe a bit odd: if the
      > English name "Strider" is mentioned in a document written in any
      > language that uses the Latin alphabet, it is still written "Strider".

      That's a very good example! I wasn't conscious but of the
      counterexample, the Quenya mode words (though not 'classical' Quenya
      mode) within the Anglo-Saxon mode of Lowdham's manuscript in DTS 50
      (neither is described on the net, I think).

      > I can think of some possible reasons why the Letters are written the
      way
      > they are:
      > - Quenya was written in other modes as well as the "standard spelling",
      > so readers were used to seeing different spellings of Quenya words.
      > - Having only one spelling for a name was not considered as
      important in
      > the Third/Fourth Age as it is today.
      > - At least in version III, written in a tehta mode, switching between
      > "postposited" and "preposited" tehtar would be too confusing.

      Three very good reasons. We might even speculate that in Gondor,
      Quenya was normally spelt according to the general use, as seen in the
      Return of the King jacket (DTS 38) and in the example you've given
      which are the only examples that can be identified as Gondorian with a
      certain security. I don't think that there's any evidence in app. E
      that would prove this speculation to be wrong.

      ---------------------------
      j. 'mach' wust
      http://machhezan.tripod.com
      ---------------------------
    • fradeve virgilio
      I saw the Appendix D only after posted my message. So, _cermie_ is the perfect solution at all my problems with months. Really I don t know that Postlithe is
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 12, 2004
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        I saw the Appendix D only after posted my message.
        So, _cermie_ is the perfect solution at all my problems with months.

        Really I don't know that Postlithe is an Italian translation of Afterlithe
        (usually the latin radix "Post" is perfectly integrated with the English
        language, so I thought that this name of month was in the original lang...)

        In this way, if I use _cermie_ the _g_ of "Luglio" is not a problem.
        I can write perfectly _cermie_ with the classic tengwar mode for Quenya.

        I think also your thoughts are perfectly correct...
        But I'm too inexpert to give an absolutely correct opinion!

        Regards,

        Fradeve Virgilio
      • Helge K. Fauskanger
        ... postposited and preposited tehtar would be too confusing. (The Latin alphabet equivalent might be Elessar Telcontar, Ragaron Ratharonino... or
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 12, 2004
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          Harri Perälä wrote (one of several explanations):

          > - At least in version III, written in a tehta mode, switching between
          "postposited" and "preposited" tehtar would be too confusing. (The Latin
          alphabet equivalent might be "Elessar Telcontar, Ragaron Ratharonino..." or
          "Eelassr Etlocantr, Aragorn Arathornion...")
          >
          > Am I on the right track here?

          Yes, I tend to think this is the correct explanation.

          It should be remembered that Quenya was not a language in daily use, though
          it served as a source for particularly noble names. Every literate person
          in Gondor must have known the Tengwar, but it is in no way certain that
          non-scholars would be familiar with the (rather peculiar) Quenya spelling
          mode. So Quenya names occurring in a Sindarin or Westron context would
          naturally be written in much the same mode as the rest of the text, making
          things much easier for both the writer and the reader. Possibly some
          "loremasters" wouldn't be quite happy about it, but a universally accepted
          standard orthography is not to be expected in a pseudo-medieval setting
          like Middle-earth.

          - HKF
        • machhezan
          ... DTS 38 provides us with an instance of a general use Quenya text that is not within a Sindarin or Westron context. We might speculate that the text could
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 13, 2004
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            --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Helge K. Fauskanger"
            <helge.fauskanger@n...> wrote:
            > It should be remembered that Quenya was not a language in daily
            > use, though it served as a source for particularly noble names.
            > Every literate person in Gondor must have known the Tengwar, but it
            > is in no way certain that non-scholars would be familiar with the
            > (rather peculiar) Quenya spelling mode. So Quenya names occurring
            > in a Sindarin or Westron context would naturally be written in much
            > the same mode as the rest of the text, making things much easier
            > for both the writer and the reader.

            DTS 38 provides us with an instance of a 'general use' Quenya text
            that is not within a Sindarin or Westron context. We might speculate
            that the text could be supposed to be written by a very literate
            Sindarin speaker. I think that this specimen suggest, as I've said,
            that in Gondor, Quenya was normally spelt according to the general
            use.

            g_0ry@_^s:
            j. 'mach' wust
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