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Tengwar double check

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  • Andrew D. Mason BSc
    Suilaid penath - If anyone interested has the time, I d heartily appreciate giving my rendering of the following (Sindarin) line into the tengwar the OK:
    Message 1 of 5 , May 17, 2004
      Suilaid penath -

      If anyone interested has the time, I'd heartily appreciate giving my
      rendering of the following (Sindarin) line into the tengwar the OK:

      Gwaith ú-bain eglain i reviar
      (Not all people are forsaken who wander)

      Many of you may recognise it as the rejiggered second line of the
      Riddle of Strider, 'Not all those who wander are lost' - the file
      goes under the name of ShiftWandering.jpg.

      I've already got one tattoo, and there's a very high chance this
      could be the second, so as you can imagine I'd like to get
      everything about this right! :) feel free to be as captious as you
      like..

      Hennaid evyr,
      Andy (Gweon Gondan)
    • calwen76
      ... my ... I d say *_ú-bain i reniar ewerthennin_ not all who wander [are] forsaken . *_ú-bain_ negative + plural of *_pân_ (a form assumed from _phain_
      Message 2 of 5 , May 18, 2004
        --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew D. Mason BSc"
        <mrshift@u...> wrote:
        > Suilaid penath -
        >
        > If anyone interested has the time, I'd heartily appreciate giving
        my
        > rendering of the following (Sindarin) line into the tengwar the OK:
        >
        > Gwaith ú-bain eglain i reviar
        > (Not all people are forsaken who wander)

        I'd say *_ú-bain i reniar ewerthennin_ 'not all who wander [are]
        forsaken'.

        *_ú-bain_ negative + plural of *_pân_ (a form assumed from _phain_
        from the King's Letter, SD/128-131)
        *_ewerthennin_ pl. passive of _awartha-_ (E/397)
        *_i reniar_ 'who wonder' < N *_rhenia-_ (_rhenio_ in E/382), _-r_ as
        a plural marker, as in _i chuinar_ (Letters:417); BMO it would have a
        strong voiced _r_ after _i_ anyway, so I've changed the _rh-_ to _r-_

        The word _eglain_ you've used is rather a noun, although meaning 'the
        forsaken (ones)'. I think _rhenio_ from the Etymologies expresses
        exactly the action meant here.

        Lucy
      • Andrew D. Mason
        ... Just a query, for my own edification - isn t the King s Letter in Sindarin Classic? is the assumed form a change of inflection from _pân_ to _phain_, or,
        Message 3 of 5 , May 20, 2004
          > > Gwaith ú-bain eglain i reviar
          > > (Not all people are forsaken who wander)
          >
          > I'd say *_ú-bain i reniar ewerthennin_ 'not all who wander [are]
          > forsaken'.
          >
          > *_ú-bain_ negative + plural of *_pân_ (a form assumed from _phain_
          > from the King's Letter, SD/128-131)

          Just a query, for my own edification - isn't the King's Letter in
          Sindarin Classic? is the assumed form a change of inflection from
          _pân_ to _phain_, or, once again, am I being simplistic?

          Either way, thanks for your help with the translation!

          > *_i reniar_ 'who wonder' < N *_rhenia-_ (_rhenio_ in E/382), _-r_
          as a plural marker, as in _i chuinar_ (Letters:417); BMO it would
          have a strong voiced _r_ after _i_ anyway, so I've changed the _rh-_
          to _r-_

          Took me a while to fathom it, but I couldn't find out what the 'N'
          was, and I'm still getting with grips with structural references -
          Finally twigged it's Nandorin (definitely not Númenorean [i.e.
          Adûnaic], like I stupidly thought it was for a while). Never
          underestimate the power of a list of conjugated Sindarin verbs!

          Interesting to note the semantics of the word 'lost' (from 'Not all
          those who wander are lost'), from what I can gather most people
          interpret it meaning 'abandoned', insofar as nearly being replacing
          _ewerthennin_ with _berthennin_ (bartha- "doom", pl. passive
          thereof, at least that I can understand). My original judgement
          deemed it to mean simply 'directionless': is it possible (or
          worthwhile) to construct a antonymic adjective from _men-_, or _-
          men_ (ITE, apparently, although I can find no specific reference),
          S. for 'direction', maybe using the S. equivalent of the 'a-' prefix
          or '-less' suffix?

          As an aside, is there any information on tengwar embellishments: I'd
          like this phrase to look unique once it's done, and not like it just
          fell out of a transcriber. Are there any recognised glyphs, or
          otherwise tasteful symbols/flourishes that I could add (post
          production, you might say) to lend even more aesthetic appeal to the
          transcription?

          As always, much obliged,
          Andy.
        • calwen76
          ... You could try your own hand do it :)) See these pages for an own script guide: http://hem.passagen.se/mansb/at/teng_calligraphy.htm Or if you re asking for
          Message 4 of 5 , May 21, 2004
            --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew D. Mason" <mrshift@u...>
            wrote:
            > As an aside, is there any information on tengwar embellishments:
            > I'd like this phrase to look unique once it's done, and not like it
            > just fell out of a transcriber. Are there any recognised glyphs, or
            > otherwise tasteful symbols/flourishes that I could add (post
            > production, you might say) to lend even more aesthetic appeal to
            > the transcription?

            You could try your own hand do it :)) See these pages for an own
            script guide:

            http://hem.passagen.se/mansb/at/teng_calligraphy.htm

            Or if you're asking for the best font for your tattoo, I'd for sure
            recommend:

            http://home.student.uu.se/j/jowi4905/fonts/annatar.html

            Your answers concerning the language: go to Elfling group and look
            for _Translation help for Andy (was: [elfscript] Re: Tengwar double
            check)_ in subject messages :)

            Lucy
          • machhezan
            ... The first and the second version of the King s Letter use a full writing mode similar to the ones used for writing English, but with the same vowel signs
            Message 5 of 5 , May 21, 2004
              Andrew D. Mason wrote:
              > Just a query, for my own edification - isn't the King's Letter in
              > Sindarin Classic?

              The first and the second version of the King's Letter use a full
              writing mode similar to the ones used for writing English, but with
              the same vowel signs as in the mode of Beleriand.

              The third version of the King's Letter is written in general use, that
              is, in the same tehtar mode that's also used for writing English,
              Quenya, Black Speech.

              If any Sindarin mode could be called 'classical', then it should be
              the ancient mode of Beleriand, probably still in use at Imladris. The
              use of the name 'classic/classical' when referring to the Sindarin
              version of the general use is misleading and doesn't rely on Tolkien.

              ---------------------------
              j. 'mach' wust
              http://machhezan.tripod.com
              ---------------------------
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