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Re: Devanagari: An Inspiration for the Tengwar?

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  • Abrigon
    Well, since JRRT was either born or raised until like age 10 (?) in South Africa, and they have a large Indian population. I suspect he had some aquaintence
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 15, 2001
      Well, since JRRT was either born or raised until like age 10 (?) in
      South Africa, and they have a large Indian population. I suspect he
      had some aquaintence with it before he became a professor.

      Sanskrit is more a syllybary than an alphabet. But I have noticed the
      similiar look before. But from what I have read, there was a gentleman
      in England some 20 years before Tolkien that had an Alphabet that was
      almost exectly in form to Tengwar, maybe not in values.

      Mike
    • Abrigon
      Well, what we call Hebrew (the script) is only one of many scripts the speakers of Hebrew have used from ancient Egyptian times to recent. To include the same
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 15, 2001
        Well, what we call Hebrew (the script) is only one of many scripts the
        speakers of Hebrew have used from ancient Egyptian times to recent. To
        include the same used for Arabic (modern), as well as Aramaic (the
        original script they used was more closed in form, and they adopted
        the Aramaic form.

        Diecritical marks, well have been around for a while, mostly in lingos
        like Arabic and Hebrew as ways to show vowels and like that are often
        not needed by fluent readers of the above lingos.

        From memory diacritical marks for Hebrew/Arabic were not used much
        until sometime after the 16th century (I forget when).

        Mike
        aka Morgoth, I like how it rolls of the tongue. And from what I can
        tell, it means like "Dark" "Goth(person)".
      • Abrigon
        Universal Alphabet, I remember it now, yes it looks alot like Tengwar in form. Might check Uighur/Tibetan/Mongol/Manchu direction of the lingos that came form
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 15, 2001
          Universal Alphabet, I remember it now, yes it looks alot like Tengwar
          in form.

          Might check Uighur/Tibetan/Mongol/Manchu direction of the lingos that
          came form the one for Sanskrit/Prakit.

          It can be an interesting inspiration for a lingo, since it is up/down,
          and right to left. But the decenders can give you some nice
          calligraphy.

          Mike
        • Abrigon
          http://homepage1.nifty.com/hobbit/english/tolkien/tengwar/index.html Examples of Tengwar, most importantly, of Japanese (Sorry no Dev)
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 15, 2001
            http://homepage1.nifty.com/hobbit/english/tolkien/tengwar/index.html

            Examples of Tengwar, most importantly, of Japanese (Sorry no Dev)


            http://www.omniglot.com/writing/devanagari.htm

            Has charts and all of the script, as well as a history, from the time
            of Brahmi.

            http://www.aczone.com/itrans/dvng/node3.html

            Another one, is aligned differently, but okay.
            This one is interesting, cause it shows the numerals, which are the
            origin of our "Arabic" numbers.

            http://cres20.anu.edu.au/~mccomas/devanagari.html

            Another one from a book.

            I do think I need to find my sources for Tibetan and other scriptos.

            I wish I had my "Elvish" books, lost it a while back in Canada.

            http://www.aczone.com/ilkeyb/ A keyboard program, might be interesting
            to see the source code and all, and see if it can be modified for
            Tengwar?

            Mike
          • Abrigon
            http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/9594/tibet.html It has much forms in common with Tengwar to including some of it s diacritical marks are the same, or
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 15, 2001
              http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/9594/tibet.html

              It has much forms in common with Tengwar to including some of it's
              diacritical marks are the same, or close. Could also be an inspiration
              for calligraphy.

              Tibetan
            • John Cowan
              ... Suure. Actually, it means Black Enemy . -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org Please leave your values |
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 16, 2001
                Abrigon scripsit:

                > aka Morgoth, I like how it rolls of the tongue. And from what I can
                > tell, it means like "Dark" "Goth(person)".

                Suure.

                Actually, it means "Black Enemy".

                --
                John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@...
                Please leave your values | Check your assumptions. In fact,
                at the front desk. | check your assumptions at the door.
                --sign in Paris hotel | --Miles Vorkosigan
              • Abrigon
                Black Enemy, do you mean in the Elvish or do you mean in Gothic. The people who gave the name Goth to the language, but who were themselves very civilized once
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 17, 2001
                  Black Enemy, do you mean in the Elvish or do you mean in Gothic.

                  The people who gave the name Goth to the language, but who were
                  themselves very civilized once they settled down, but sadly most when
                  they became christian, became Arian Christian, which to Catholics was
                  a heresy, same with their cousins the Vandals, who have the same
                  dislike in the western world. Even if it was the now Catholic
                  Visigoths who fell to the might of Islam in Spain. The goths existed
                  in the Crimea until around 1700, or so the stories go.

                  Goth is a Eastern Germanic lingo, verus the English/German being
                  Western Germanic, and Norse (and related tongues) as Northern
                  Germanic.

                  Mike
                  In Sindarian/Quenya it did mean the Black Enemy/Dark Enemy, while his
                  first name was Melkor, one who arises in might.. But after Feanor was
                  mindly corrupted by him, as well as cause Feanor to revolt against the
                  Vala, he was named Morgoth. Partially for his killing of Feanors
                  father, as well as poisoning the one tree and like. so that the only
                  light of the one tree in the world was the Silmarill.

                  --- In elfscript@y..., John Cowan <cowan@c...> wrote:
                  > Abrigon scripsit:
                  >
                  > > aka Morgoth, I like how it rolls of the tongue. And from what I
                  can
                  > > tell, it means like "Dark" "Goth(person)".
                  >
                  > Suure.
                  >
                  > Actually, it means "Black Enemy".
                  >
                  > --
                  > John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
                  cowan@c...
                  > Please leave your values | Check your assumptions. In
                  fact,
                  > at the front desk. | check your assumptions at
                  the door.
                  > --sign in Paris hotel | --Miles Vorkosigan
                • abrigon
                  We do need to remember Prof Tolkien was raised in part in South Africa, that has a large east indian population, atleast one time.. It is also where Gandhi
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 31, 2003
                    We do need to remember Prof Tolkien was raised in part in South
                    Africa, that has a large east indian population, atleast one time.. It
                    is also where Gandhi learned a bit of his lawyer ways..

                    Not likely the Prof and Ganghi knew each other, but they had some
                    similar exposure in a same time/place..

                    Also seen in one of my books, a script by another English professor
                    that looks alot like the later Tengwar.. Not sure of it's origin and
                    all..

                    Mike
                  • John Cowan
                    ... Tolkien was born in S.A. and left there at age 4. Gandhi arrived at age 23 and left at age 44. Not much common ground there! -- John Cowan
                    Message 9 of 15 , Apr 1, 2003
                      abrigon scripsit:

                      > We do need to remember Prof Tolkien was raised in part in South
                      > Africa, that has a large east indian population, atleast one time.. It
                      > is also where Gandhi learned a bit of his lawyer ways..

                      Tolkien was born in S.A. and left there at age 4. Gandhi arrived at age
                      23 and left at age 44. Not much common ground there!

                      --
                      John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@...
                      To say that Bilbo's breath was taken away is no description at all. There
                      are no words left to express his staggerment, since Men changed the language
                      that they learned of elves in the days when all the world was wonderful.
                      --_The Hobbit_
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