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Re: [elfscript] sindarin classic

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  • Melroch 'Aestan
    ... Really? Where in Tolkien have you seen that? /BP 8^) -- B.Philip Jonsson mailto:melrochX@melroch.se (delete X)
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 7 10:38 PM
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      At 21:15 7.3.2004, d_daniel_andries@... wrote:

      > In full writing modes, 'y' is written with
      >silme nuquerna,

      Really? Where in Tolkien have you seen that?

      /BP 8^)
      --
      B.Philip Jonsson mailto:melrochX@... (delete X)
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~__
      A h-ammen ledin i phith! \ \
      __ ____ ____ _____________ ____ __ __ __ / /
      \ \/___ \\__ \ /___ _____/\ \\__ \\ \ \ \\ \ / /
      / / / / / \ / /Melroch\ \_/ // / / // / / /
      / /___/ /_ / /\ \ / /'Aestan ~\_ // /__/ // /__/ /
      /_________//_/ \_\/ /Eowine __ / / \___/\_\\___/\_\
      Gwaedhvenn Angeliniel\ \______/ /a/ /_h-adar Merthol naun
      ~~~~~~~~~Kuinondil~~~\________/~~\__/~~~Noolendur~~~~~~
      || Lenda lenda pellalenda pellatellenda kuivie aiya! ||
      "A coincidence, as we say in Middle-Earth" (JRR Tolkien)
    • legolas_greenleaf303
      im useing ott i did celebdring in sindarin classic i thought i would get noldo which is ing instead i get nwalme which ingw basically im trying learn elvish i
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 7 10:40 PM
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        im useing ott i did celebdring in sindarin classic i thought i would
        get noldo which is ing instead i get nwalme which ingw basically im
        trying learn elvish i know the vowels and what not i just dont get
        the double letters and the 3 ys anna yanta and the vowel i also dont
        know the rules im geussing sindarin classic is basically sindarin
        mode of beleriand and quenya mixed
      • d_daniel_andries@webtv.net
        ... The Lord of the Rings , Appendix E: The West-gate inscription illustrates a mode of full writing with the vowels represented by separate letters. All
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 7 11:31 PM
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          Teithant Melroch:
          >d_daniel_andries@... wrote:
          > > In full writing modes, 'y' is written with
          > >silme nuquerna,
          >Really?  Where in Tolkien have you seen that?

          'The Lord of the Rings', Appendix E:
          "The West-gate inscription illustrates a mode of 'full writing' with the
          vowels represented by separate letters. All the vocalic letters used in
          Sindarin are shown. The use of No. 30 as a sign for vocalic y may be
          noted..." Tengwa No. 30 is, of course, silme nuquerna. Furthermore, the
          word 'mhellyn' in the King's Letter, version I ("Sauron Defeated"),
          appears to be spelt with silme nuquerna. Silme nuquerna used to
          represent 'y' in two different Sindarin full writing modes suggests to
          me that this was the common practice.

          Cuio mae, Danny.
        • Melroch 'Aestan
          ... Of course, though I think it was originally an Uure with subscript long carrier -- to indicate i-umlaut. When writing Swedish I have extended this use by
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 8 11:34 AM
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            At 08:31 8.3.2004, d_daniel_andries@... wrote:
            >Teithant Melroch:
            >>d_daniel_andries@... wrote:
            >> > In full writing modes, 'y' is written with
            >> >silme nuquerna,
            >>Really? Where in Tolkien have you seen that?
            >
            >'The Lord of the Rings', Appendix E:
            >"The West-gate inscription illustrates a mode of 'full writing' with the
            >vowels represented by separate letters. All the vocalic letters used in
            >Sindarin are shown. The use of No. 30 as a sign for vocalic y may be
            >noted..." Tengwa No. 30 is, of course, silme nuquerna. Furthermore, the
            >word 'mhellyn' in the King's Letter, version I ("Sauron Defeated"),
            >appears to be spelt with silme nuquerna. Silme nuquerna used to
            >represent 'y' in two different Sindarin full writing modes suggests to
            >me that this was the common practice.
            >
            >Cuio mae, Danny.

            Of course, though I think it was originally an Uure with subscript
            long carrier -- to indicate i-umlaut. When writing Swedish I have
            extended this use by having esse nuquerna for _ö_.

            I misinterpreted you because I thought you were talking of
            **consonantal** _y_ [j] when writing English. Musta been tired!


            /BP 8^)
            --
            B.Philip Jonsson mailto:melrochX@... (delete X)
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~__
            A h-ammen ledin i phith! \ \
            __ ____ ____ _____________ ____ __ __ __ / /
            \ \/___ \\__ \ /___ _____/\ \\__ \\ \ \ \\ \ / /
            / / / / / \ / /Melroch\ \_/ // / / // / / /
            / /___/ /_ / /\ \ / /'Aestan ~\_ // /__/ // /__/ /
            /_________//_/ \_\/ /Eowine __ / / \___/\_\\___/\_\
            Gwaedhvenn Angeliniel\ \______/ /a/ /_h-adar Merthol naun
            ~~~~~~~~~Kuinondil~~~\________/~~\__/~~~Noolendur~~~~~~
            || Lenda lenda pellalenda pellatellenda kuivie aiya! ||
            "A coincidence, as we say in Middle-Earth" (JRR Tolkien)
          • machhezan
            ... There are three Sindarin modes attested by Tolkien. They differ basicly in the use of the third or the fourth tengwar series for k-sounds (k, g, ch, ng)
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 8 11:46 AM
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              "legolas_greenleaf303" wrote:
              > im geussing sindarin classic is basically sindarin mode of
              > beleriand and quenya mixed

              There are three Sindarin modes attested by Tolkien. They differ
              basicly in the use of the third or the fourth tengwar series for
              k-sounds (k, g, ch, ng) and in the representation of the vowels. One
              of these modes is given a name by Tolkien himself, the "mode of
              Beleriand", which is the mode of the inscription of the west gate of
              Moria. It uses the third consonant series for the k-sounds and
              represents the vowels by full letters.

              The other two Sindarin modes aren't explicitly named by Tolkien
              himself. They're both attested in the three versions of the "King's
              Letter". They both use the fourth tengwar series for the k-sounds, but
              they differ in the representation of the vowels: The earlier versions
              of the "King's Letter" represent the vowels with full letters, while
              the final version represents them with tehtar.

              As you see, there's no Sindarin mode by Tolkien that uses the third
              consonant series for the k-sounds AND represents the vowels with
              tehtar, and neither is there a mode that were called "sindarin
              classic". So you're right that this mode is a (post-tolkienian)
              mixture of the mode of Beleriand and the classical mode of Quenya.

              > i just dont get the double letters and the 3 ys anna yanta
              > and the vowel

              I think the files of Per Lindberg mentioned by Elimloth are the best
              ready-made online resource for the Sindarin modes and will answer most
              of your questions. Though they have a little gap concerning the "3
              ys": In his description of the Sindarin tehtar mode, Per covers them
              almost. The vowel _y_, the second part of diphthong _-i_, and the
              syllable-initial _i-_, but his description of the mode of Beleriand
              lacks the latter. It's the long carrier.

              ---------------------------
              j. 'mach' wust
              http://machhezan.tripod.com
              ---------------------------
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