Re: Sauron and the mode on the One Ring
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, Carl F. Hostetter <Aelfwine@e...>
> J.R.R. Tolkien, _Ósanwe-kenta_ (published in _Vinyar Tengwar_ 39)Thanks a lot for this. This can explain that Sauron had learnt
Tengwar and Quenya from Morgoth.
- Thanks Carl, that's exactly the quote I was looking for, but I was
unable to find it. It shows that the evil have only one interest in
language: It's a tool that allows them to control others. However,
it's an imperfect tool since it doesn't allow the control of their
minds, cf. some lines below: "(...) behind the words (even of those in
fear and torment) dwells ever the _sáma_ [i.e. the mind, note by j.w.]
inviolable: the words are not in it, though they may proceed form it
(as cries from behind a locked door) (...). Therefore, the Liar says
that all words are lies (...). In this vast network he himself
enmeshed struggles and rages, gnawed by suspicion, doubt, and fear."
So I believe that despite all mastery of speech, the evil'd still
dislike speech profoundly, since it can't ever give them certainty.
The Eldar, and especially the Noldor, had a very different interest in
language: the pleasure in sounds and forms of words. To cite again
from the Ósanwe-kenta: "Things may seem alike, but if they are in kind
wholly different they must be distinguished."
I doubt that kind of interest the evil have in language would also
generate an interest in scripts. And even if Melkor had learned the
tengwar, I don't believe (though I can't deny the possibility) that
he'd teach them to Sauron, just as I don't believe he would teach him
Quenya: How could this possibly serve his will of control?
OT: Am I right in assuming that Carl's quote of the Ósanwe-kenta is
the only mention of a language of Morgoth?
j. 'mach' wust
- On Mar 7, 2004, at 7:13 AM, machhezan wrote:
> However, [language is] an imperfect tool since it doesn't allow theExactly so; but then, nothing allows control of a mind other than the
> control of their minds,
assent of the mind itself. And as Tolkien says, Melkor found in
language an ideal tool for winning entry to a mind, and persuading the
mind to surrender its will to him.
> So I believe that despite all mastery of speech, the evil'd stillIf I understand your point correctly, I think it is the ambiguity of
> dislike speech profoundly, since it can't ever give them certainty.
speech that _attracted_ Melkor and his ilk to the potency of language
as a tool. Through lies, half-truths, and distortions, Melkor was able
to corrupt the mind and heart of others, and bring them willingly into
his service -- and mastery.
And I daresay that evil despises everything except that which it find
useful for its own purposes, at any given time.
> OT: Am I right in assuming that Carl's quote of the Ósanwe-kenta isSo far as I can recall at the moment, yes.
> the only mention of a language of Morgoth?
- Carl F. Hostetter wrote:
> If I understand your point correctly, I think it is the ambiguity ofThrough language, he can't force people's "heart", but only their
> speech that _attracted_ Melkor and his ilk to the potency of
> language as a tool.
thoughts. I believe he'd prefer a tool that allowed him to force
people's "heart" directly, but there's no such tool by Eru's design of
the world. So I think he dislikes language because it doesn't allow
total control. Of course, he employs it masterly because it still
allows much control, but nonetheless he dislikes it, I daresay.
The elves appreciated language highly, not as a tool, but by itself. I
believe that this is testified by their language lore: poetry,
linguistics, writing, because by my opinion this lore necessarily
requires appreciation of language by itself. Since the evil lack
appreciation of language by itself, I think that they don't have any
interest in language lore. So I think that neither Morgoth nor Sauron
would learn the tengwar unless it'd serve their purpose of control. I
perfectly agree with Carl:
> And I daresay that evil despises everything except that which itSo if we want to speculate where Sauron could have learnt the tengwar,
> find useful for its own purposes, at any given time.
we must ask: Where could it have served his purposes? If the elves
used the tengwar for secret messages in the war of the jewels, then
the tengwar would have served Sauron's purpose. We only know that
Sauron required the tengwar for the forging of the One Ring. Could the
tengwar have served him in some earlier sorcery? We don't know.
Neither do we know whether the tengwar served Morgoth to gain the
confidence of the Noldor. Could the tengwar have served to control his
slaves? I don't recall any evidence of it in the Lord of the Rings,
and I think he'd manage without writing.
j. 'mach' wust