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Re: Translation/transcription verification request

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  • calwen76
    ... Yeah, there s no difference in TengScribe between *modes* - only between languages (Sindarin and Quenya). Just briefly: the consonants are represented by
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 5, 2004
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      --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <ftezebra@y...> wrote:
      > hmmm. I used TengScribe with Sindarin mode. I don't see a Beleriand
      > mode anywhere.

      Yeah, there's no difference in TengScribe between *modes* - only
      between languages (Sindarin and Quenya). Just briefly: the consonants
      are represented by _tengwar_ that actually present the corpus of the
      word; the signs above _tengwar_ are called _tehtar_ (they can either
      represent vowels or have other functions). Now, there are two ways
      i.e. modes of writing Sindarin in Tengwar:
      a) the triple dots, dots, accute accents, curls above _tengwar_ (i.e.
      consonants) represent vowels - these signs are called _ómatehtar_:
      such mode is called _tehta mode_
      b) vowels are not written with _ómatehtar_ above _tengwar_ but
      also with _tengwar_ > such mode is called _full mode_

      Beleriand mode is the only attested style of 'genuine' writing of
      Sindarin we know (for now, I hope) - as Mach has mentioned. So it is
      obvious that the TengScribe offers but this style. We have a sample
      of Tengwar _tehta mode_ text that was written by Aragorn so it is not
      BMO accurate to consider this text as 'genuine' Elvish. But as far as
      your words include no controversary letters, I think you can use the
      tehta mode with no pain.

      > I tried your manual transcription, but for some reason the
      > characters didn't come out correctly in Word using Tengwar Elfica.
      > Any other ideas?

      Well, I think it is because I have another keyboard or what. In case
      you will to wait for just a little bit I can make a picture of the
      Sindarin words - you know, I have no pic editor here at work... :o)
      Or someone else could give you instant help.

      Lucy
    • Mike
      Might also show gf the range of fonts available, so she has an idea of what there is available for sure. As well as writing styles. Me, I like to try to weave
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 8, 2004
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        Might also show gf the range of fonts available, so she has an idea of what there is available for sure.

        As well as writing styles. Me, I like to try to weave letters in and together, much like you see in Arabic/Islamic calligraphy.

        But that is just me.

        Different colors, unless you like the straight black?

        Mike
      • Matthew
        ... I tried your manual suggestion, and I got this result: http://heterophobic.org/journal/img/melethmil.jpg As you can see, the transcription as typed in for
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 11, 2004
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          > You could try this (in the parenthesis there's the number of the
          > tengwa as it is set in the chart - see Appendix E to the Lord of
          > the Rings and *after the slash* I put the appropriate key on your
          > keyboard you have to press):
          > _meleth_ > malta (18/t) - lambe (27/j) with an acute accent
          > above (-> /R) - thúle (9/#) with an acute accent above (/R)
          > _mîl_ > malta (18/t) - long carrier (-/~) with a dot above (-/B) -
          > lambe (27/j)

          I tried your manual suggestion, and I got this result:
          http://heterophobic.org/journal/img/melethmil.jpg
          As you can see, the transcription as typed in for "meleth" (tjR#R) and
          "mîl" (t~Bj). Any ideas as to why this isn't working?

          matthew.
        • calwen76
          ... and ... Well, I don t really know where is the problem, I guess different keyboards play their role here. I d suggest you to download Dan Smith s fonts
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 12, 2004
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            --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <ftezebra@y...> wrote:

            > > _meleth_ > malta (18/t) - lambe (27/j) with an acute accent
            > > above (-> /R) - thúle (9/#) with an acute accent above (/R)
            > > _mîl_ > malta (18/t) - long carrier (-/~) with a dot above (-/B) -
            > > lambe (27/j)
            >
            > I tried your manual suggestion, and I got this result:
            > http://heterophobic.org/journal/img/melethmil.jpg
            > As you can see, the transcription as typed in for "meleth" (tjR#R)
            and
            > "mîl" (t~Bj). Any ideas as to why this isn't working?
            >
            > matthew.

            Well, I don't really know where is the problem, I guess different
            keyboards play their role here. I'd suggest you to download Dan
            Smith's fonts package from here:
            http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/4948/tengwar/index.htm
            or here:
            http://www.geocities.com/fontmaster.geo/index.html

            I sometimes have problems to get throught these. I'll try to email
            you just the single Keyboard map - so you can yourself find out the
            right keys. Such hybrids sometimes occure when I write not noticing
            that I am using keyboard for e.g. French or Czech - if you have more
            keyboards available/chosen in your Word Editor, make sure you have
            switched to English keyboard. This may sound silly when I assume that
            you are American or British but you never know :o)

            Lucy
          • Johan Winge
            ... I m afraid you have written TjR#R and T~Bj. I guess your word editor changes an initial lower case character to the corresponding upper case, so you will
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 12, 2004
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              On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 03:32:33 -0000, Matthew <ftezebra@...> wrote:

              >> You could try this (in the parenthesis there's the number of the
              >> tengwa as it is set in the chart - see Appendix E to the Lord of
              >> the Rings and *after the slash* I put the appropriate key on your
              >> keyboard you have to press):
              >> _meleth_ > malta (18/t) - lambe (27/j) with an acute accent
              >> above (-> /R) - thúle (9/#) with an acute accent above (/R)
              >> _mîl_ > malta (18/t) - long carrier (-/~) with a dot above (-/B) -
              >> lambe (27/j)
              >
              > I tried your manual suggestion, and I got this result:
              > http://heterophobic.org/journal/img/melethmil.jpg
              > As you can see, the transcription as typed in for "meleth" (tjR#R) and
              > "mîl" (t~Bj). Any ideas as to why this isn't working?

              I'm afraid you have written TjR#R and T~Bj. I guess your word editor
              changes an initial lower case character to the corresponding upper case,
              so you will have to figure out how to shut this "feature" off.

              There is also another problem: thuule is written by pressing "3" on the
              keyboard, not "#". So tjR3R is what you want. If you want to use Tengwar
              Annatar I propose tj$3R instead - the difference is how the acute accent
              is placed above lambe.

              Regards,
              Johan Winge
            • calwen76
              ... editor changes an initial lower case character to the corresponding upper case, so you will have to figure out how to shut this feature off. I think you
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 12, 2004
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                --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Johan Winge <johan.winge@t...>
                wrote:
                > I'm afraid you have written TjR#R and T~Bj. I guess your word
                editor changes an initial lower case character to the corresponding
                upper case, so you will have to figure out how to shut this "feature"
                off.

                I think you can turn off the function "Capitals in the beginning of
                the line/row" in Tools/Autoratch (or I don't know what's the correct
                name of that function)

                > There is also another problem: thuule is written by pressing "3" on
                the keyboard, not "#". So tjR3R is what you want. If you want to use
                Tengwar Annatar I propose tj$3R instead - the difference is how the
                acute accent is placed above lambe.

                Yes, that's the problem with different keyboards. I have Czech
                characters on the numerals so I just guessed what is the correct key.
                This is interesting - I have to press SHIFT + numerals to get the
                tehtar. :o)

                Sorry for the confusion.

                Lucy
              • Matthew
                UGH. Farking MS Word. Figures... I corrected my manual transcription to this: http://heterophobic.org/journal/img/melethmil.jpg Looks much better, I think. Do
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 12, 2004
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                  UGH. Farking MS Word. Figures...

                  I corrected my manual transcription to this:
                  http://heterophobic.org/journal/img/melethmil.jpg
                  Looks much better, I think.

                  Do my Quenya transcriptions have the same problem? Are they done in
                  Beleriand mode with whatever missing?

                  thanks. :-)
                  matthew.
                • calwen76
                  ... Yes, this looks all right to me. ... There s actually only one way of writting Quenya, as far as I know - the tehta mode. Looking at your picture, I think
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 12, 2004
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                    --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" <ftezebra@y...> wrote:
                    > I corrected my manual transcription to this:
                    > http://heterophobic.org/journal/img/melethmil.jpg
                    > Looks much better, I think.

                    Yes, this looks all right to me.

                    > Do my Quenya transcriptions have the same problem? Are they done in
                    > Beleriand mode with whatever missing?

                    There's actually only one way of writting Quenya, as far as I know -
                    the tehta mode. Looking at your picture, I think all words are
                    transcribed correctly, the only think I'd correct is moving the
                    accute accents (E-tehta) in the _Tegwar cursive font_ words so they
                    are right above the middle of the tengwar.

                    Lucy
                  • machhezan
                    ... Most of the Quenya tengwar texts are written in the classical Quenya mode, but some are written according to the general use or Westron mode, see e.g.
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 13, 2004
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                      Lucy wrote:
                      > There's actually only one way of writting Quenya, as far as I know -
                      > the tehta mode.

                      Most of the Quenya tengwar texts are written in the 'classical' Quenya
                      mode, but some are written according to the 'general use' or Westron
                      mode, see e.g. on Måns Björkman's site:

                      http://hem.passagen.se/mansb/at/teng_modes.htm

                      The 'classical' mode is preferrable, since it's specially adapted to
                      Quenya.


                      suilaid
                      j. 'mach' wust
                      http://machhezan.tripod.com
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