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Re: [elfscript] Ascii transliteration for tengwar

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  • Lisa Star
    ... **Harri Perala, I would like to first thank you for making your tengwar font available. That was both useful and generous of you. (I downloaded it from
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 26, 2001
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      >From: "Harri Per�l�" <harri.perala@...>
      >Reply-To: elfscript@yahoogroups.com

      **Harri Perala, I would like to first thank you for making your tengwar font
      available. That was both useful and generous of you. (I downloaded it from
      the Amanya Tenceli site, and I will probably use it in Tyalie Tyelellieva
      sooner or later).

      >Greetings,
      >
      >Reading some of the recent Elfscript messages made me think about the
      >ways of representing tengwar in email. Calling each tengwa by its name
      >is fine, but sometimes a concise transliteration method might be useful.

      **I am snipping all this, and I would like to comment that a more concise
      transcription would be nice, but writing out the names has the advantage
      that people can sort of "picture" the transcription fairly easy as they are
      reading it.

      >So, this is what some familiar inscriptions
      >would look like:

      >\<V )Arv< hA") EKAt-
      >kElEbr<ib-Or O ErEg<iO) tE"TAt- <i T<iw h<i)\
      >
      >Not very pretty, but I think this is fairly easy to write,

      **Well it gets the big "eeek!" (expression of dismay and horror), though I
      do not dismiss it. I would just like to point out that it looks rather like
      Dan Smith's transcription, (before the font has been changed to tengwar),
      which is often used to send messages--that is, people type the message in
      such a transcription as will be readable in tengwar when the font is
      changed. They then send it in email and the receiver simply changes the
      font. This is commonly done, but I think that it may not work at all for
      people on certain types of computer systems. It is also difficult to
      produce the original texts (for the sender), but easy for the receiver to
      transcribe it and read.

      >Since a system like this is obviously only useful if several people
      >adopt it, I wanted to ask for your opinions before developing the
      >proposal any further. Do you think there would be use for a
      >transliteration method like this? Does a similar (mode independent) one
      >perhaps exist already?

      **oh, another, simple type of transcription is to write the tengwar numbers
      in parentheses (2)a-tehta (21)(18)a-tehta, or something like that. Also
      transcribable.

      ** Lisa Star
      ** LisaStar@...
      ** http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/9902



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    • Harri Perälä
      ... Thank you. ... I guess the amount of learning needed to use this kind of representation might be too large compared to the benefit. On the other hand, it
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 27, 2001
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        Lisa Star wrote:

        > **Harri Perala, I would like to first thank you for making your tengwar font
        > available. That was both useful and generous of you.

        Thank you.

        > >kElEbr<ib-Or O ErEg<iO) tE"TAt- <i T<iw h<i)\
        > >Not very pretty, but I think this is fairly easy to write,
        > **Well it gets the big "eeek!" (expression of dismay and horror), though I
        > do not dismiss it.

        I guess the amount of learning needed to use this kind of representation
        might be too large compared to the benefit. On the other hand, it would
        (in principle) make it possible to discuss the exact spelling of texts
        in any mode, even longer ones, quite efficiently.

        > I would just like to point out that it looks rather like
        > Dan Smith's transcription, (before the font has been changed to tengwar),
        > which is often used to send messages--that is, people type the message in
        > such a transcription as will be readable in tengwar when the font is
        > changed.

        That method must often be the best one in private email. I also agree
        that it cannot be used everywhere. On lists like Elfscript there is
        still need for representations that can be read and written even with
        some ancient misconfigured terminal. Whether the current methods are
        enough, I do not know. I must admit I am perhaps more excited about
        creating the system that about its practical uses. :)

        > **oh, another, simple type of transcription is to write the tengwar numbers
        > in parentheses (2)a-tehta (21)(18)a-tehta, or something like that. Also
        > transcribable.

        Yes, that seems quite straightforward, though personally I find it even
        more difficult to figure out.

        --
        Harri Perälä perala@... http://www.sci.fi/%7ealboin/
      • DDanielA@webtv.net
        I, too, have used a tengwar transliteration method based on the numbers, and it s not difficult if you have the chart in front of you! To denote the
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 27, 2001
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          I, too, have used a tengwar transliteration method based on the numbers,
          and it's not difficult if you have the chart in front of you! To denote
          the ómatehtar, I simply use the corresponding Roman letters: lower
          case for short vowels, upper case for long vowels. There is no need to
          distinguish the extra-long vowels of Sindarin as they are not different
          from the regular long vowels in the tengwar script. Other tehtar and
          other characters in my notation:
          nasal bar: ~
          double bar: _
          short carrier: sc
          long carrier : lc
          following w/u: +w
          's' hook: +s
          following y/i: +y
          halla: h+
          (E. g. 'ando' + nasal bar: 5~ ; 'e' tehta over short carrier: sc-e;
          'hl': h+27; etc.)
          When transliterating a 'full writing' Sindarin mode, I use 'a' to
          represent the vowel symbol (c) since it would not be confused with the
          tehta notation 'a': ómatehtar are not used in full writing modes,
          therefore no confusion would arise.
          'Namárië' would be transliterated thus: 17-a 18-A 25-i sc-e ...
          there is no need to denote the long carrier here because the symbol 'A'
          shows that it must be placed over a long carrier. The symbol 'lc' is
          more useful when describing full writing modes that use it for another
          purpose or for distinguishing between the use of the long carrier and of
          doubled tehtar for é, ó and ú. Doubled ómatehtar could, of
          course, be represented as EE, OO and UU.
          Another example, 'A Elbereth Gilthoniel' in the mode of Beleriand: a
          35 27 6 35 25 35 9 7 sc 27 9 23 21 sc 35 27 .
          I suppose any transliteration system seems cumbersome until you get te
          hang of it!
          Just my thoughts on the subject.

          Cuio mae, Danny.
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