Re: [elfscript] Ascii transliteration for tengwar
>From: "Harri Per�l�" <harri.perala@...>**Harri Perala, I would like to first thank you for making your tengwar font
available. That was both useful and generous of you. (I downloaded it from
the Amanya Tenceli site, and I will probably use it in Tyalie Tyelellieva
sooner or later).
>Greetings,**I am snipping all this, and I would like to comment that a more concise
>Reading some of the recent Elfscript messages made me think about the
>ways of representing tengwar in email. Calling each tengwa by its name
>is fine, but sometimes a concise transliteration method might be useful.
transcription would be nice, but writing out the names has the advantage
that people can sort of "picture" the transcription fairly easy as they are
>So, this is what some familiar inscriptions**Well it gets the big "eeek!" (expression of dismay and horror), though I
>would look like:
>\<V )Arv< hA") EKAt-
>kElEbr<ib-Or O ErEg<iO) tE"TAt- <i T<iw h<i)\
>Not very pretty, but I think this is fairly easy to write,
do not dismiss it. I would just like to point out that it looks rather like
Dan Smith's transcription, (before the font has been changed to tengwar),
which is often used to send messages--that is, people type the message in
such a transcription as will be readable in tengwar when the font is
changed. They then send it in email and the receiver simply changes the
font. This is commonly done, but I think that it may not work at all for
people on certain types of computer systems. It is also difficult to
produce the original texts (for the sender), but easy for the receiver to
transcribe it and read.
>Since a system like this is obviously only useful if several people**oh, another, simple type of transcription is to write the tengwar numbers
>adopt it, I wanted to ask for your opinions before developing the
>proposal any further. Do you think there would be use for a
>transliteration method like this? Does a similar (mode independent) one
>perhaps exist already?
in parentheses (2)a-tehta (21)(18)a-tehta, or something like that. Also
** Lisa Star
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- Lisa Star wrote:
> **Harri Perala, I would like to first thank you for making your tengwar fontThank you.
> available. That was both useful and generous of you.
> >kElEbr<ib-Or O ErEg<iO) tE"TAt- <i T<iw h<i)\I guess the amount of learning needed to use this kind of representation
> >Not very pretty, but I think this is fairly easy to write,
> **Well it gets the big "eeek!" (expression of dismay and horror), though I
> do not dismiss it.
might be too large compared to the benefit. On the other hand, it would
(in principle) make it possible to discuss the exact spelling of texts
in any mode, even longer ones, quite efficiently.
> I would just like to point out that it looks rather likeThat method must often be the best one in private email. I also agree
> Dan Smith's transcription, (before the font has been changed to tengwar),
> which is often used to send messages--that is, people type the message in
> such a transcription as will be readable in tengwar when the font is
that it cannot be used everywhere. On lists like Elfscript there is
still need for representations that can be read and written even with
some ancient misconfigured terminal. Whether the current methods are
enough, I do not know. I must admit I am perhaps more excited about
creating the system that about its practical uses. :)
> **oh, another, simple type of transcription is to write the tengwar numbersYes, that seems quite straightforward, though personally I find it even
> in parentheses (2)a-tehta (21)(18)a-tehta, or something like that. Also
more difficult to figure out.
Harri Perälä perala@... http://www.sci.fi/%7ealboin/
- I, too, have used a tengwar transliteration method based on the numbers,
and it's not difficult if you have the chart in front of you! To denote
the ómatehtar, I simply use the corresponding Roman letters: lower
case for short vowels, upper case for long vowels. There is no need to
distinguish the extra-long vowels of Sindarin as they are not different
from the regular long vowels in the tengwar script. Other tehtar and
other characters in my notation:
nasal bar: ~
double bar: _
short carrier: sc
long carrier : lc
following w/u: +w
's' hook: +s
following y/i: +y
(E. g. 'ando' + nasal bar: 5~ ; 'e' tehta over short carrier: sc-e;
'hl': h+27; etc.)
When transliterating a 'full writing' Sindarin mode, I use 'a' to
represent the vowel symbol (c) since it would not be confused with the
tehta notation 'a': ómatehtar are not used in full writing modes,
therefore no confusion would arise.
'Namárië' would be transliterated thus: 17-a 18-A 25-i sc-e ...
there is no need to denote the long carrier here because the symbol 'A'
shows that it must be placed over a long carrier. The symbol 'lc' is
more useful when describing full writing modes that use it for another
purpose or for distinguishing between the use of the long carrier and of
doubled tehtar for é, ó and ú. Doubled ómatehtar could, of
course, be represented as EE, OO and UU.
Another example, 'A Elbereth Gilthoniel' in the mode of Beleriand: a
35 27 6 35 25 35 9 7 sc 27 9 23 21 sc 35 27 .
I suppose any transliteration system seems cumbersome until you get te
hang of it!
Just my thoughts on the subject.
Cuio mae, Danny.