Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: help needed.. please? :)

Expand Messages
  • Calwen Rudh
    ... desired meaning, which is to continue to be something (my vigor, my joy, my pain). Already then. I was thinking of it and have to admit you re right. ...
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 2, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Carl wrote:
      > I still disagree. _deri_ 'stop, halt', certainly has none of the
      desired meaning, which is "to continue to be" something (my vigor, my
      joy, my pain).

      Already then. I was thinking of it and have to admit you're right.

      > After all, if presented next week with someone wanting to
      translate "You stop my heart", would you not then suggest the same
      stem _deri_?

      Hmmm, assuming you wouldn't let it go through this list unnoticed ...
      no. :)

      > What "arguing"? How is it "arguing" to point out that the word you
      suggest does not have the desired meaning?

      This had no negative meaning. I might have rather written "guessing"
      or something less ambiguous. Or nothing.

      > My only "DIRECT" advice is to not use _deri_, …

      OK.

      So let's try to help poor Idril. What about something like:
      _Le hebithon vi guur niin, le i 'orf niin, i 'lass niin, i naeg niin._
      "You I will keep in my heart, you - my vigor, my joy, my pain."

      - knowing that the pronominal ending is not sure. I don't have VT:44
      so I haven't read the analysis so I can't say anything about accuracy
      of _vi_.

      One little question in the end: were we of any help to Idril? I guess
      not. And that doesn't please me.

      Lucy
    • Carl F. Hostetter
      ... I think it is quite a bit of help -- whether the person being so helped realizes it or not -- to show what the actual nature of Tolkien s languages is, and
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 2, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        On Dec 2, 2003, at 4:06 AM, Calwen Rudh wrote:

        > One little question in the end: were we of any help to Idril? I guess
        > not. And that doesn't please me.

        I think it is quite a bit of help -- whether the person being so helped
        realizes it or not -- to show what the actual nature of Tolkien's
        languages is, and how language in general actually works, and the
        pitfalls of attempting to "speak" a poorly-attested language.

        After all, if none of these things concern "Idril", if all she really
        wants it to have something pretty-looking permanently etched into her
        skin, then why not just transliterate the English phrase into Tengwar?



        --
        =============================================
        Carl F. Hostetter Aelfwine@... http://www.elvish.org

        ho bios brachys, he de techne makre.
        Ars longa, vita brevis.
        The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.
        "I wish life was not so short," he thought. "Languages take such
        a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about."
      • Calwen Rudh
        ... really ... her ... Tengwar? Well this was in my mind too. To be honest I don t much understand people who want to get an English (or other language)
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 2, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Carl F. Hostetter <Aelfwine@e...>
          wrote:
          > After all, if none of these things concern "Idril", if all she
          really
          > wants it to have something pretty-looking permanently etched into
          her
          > skin, then why not just transliterate the English phrase into
          Tengwar?

          Well this was in my mind too. To be honest I don't much understand
          people who want to get an English (or other language) sentence in
          Sindarin tattood in Tengwar without knowing a piece of Sindarin
          itself. I wouldn't e.g. get a tattoo of wind in Svahili transcribed
          in Japanese signs although Svahili seems very exotic to me and I like
          the look of Japanese signs. But it doesn't mean I don'T want to help.
          It is their choice.

          Ok, Idril, so why don'T you get your sentence in English in Tengwar
          when we can't give you a good translation into Sindarin? :o)

          Lucy
        • Helge K. Fauskanger
          ... have the desired meaning (in fact, has pretty much the opposite of the desired meaning in this case). Offhand, I can t think of a verb that does have the
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 6, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Carl F. Hostetter wote:

            > My only "DIRECT" advice is to not use _deri_, since it clearly does not
            have the desired meaning (in fact, has pretty much the opposite of the
            desired meaning in this case). Offhand, I can't think of a verb that does
            have the desired meaning -- again, "to continue to be" (something) -- so
            unless someone can suggest such a verb, I would otherwise advise you either
            to paraphrase,

            Some kind of paraphrase is the obvious solution here. If we assume that
            _le_ can function as subject "you", then "you remain" (etc.) can be
            rendered as _le him_, literally "you [are] continually" or "you're still
            [my pleasure, my pain or whatever]". See the entry KHIM in the Etymologies
            for the adverb _him_.

            - HKF
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.