Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: What tengwa for a sound _ts_

Expand Messages
  • machhezan
    ... Sure, I m sorry, fricatives is what I meant (spirant is just an alternative but unusual term). suilaid mach
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 11, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Lucy wrote:
      > >SĂșletyelle and antotyelle are spirant tyeller, though _ts, dz_
      > aren't >spirants, but affricates (stop + spirant from the same
      > series/place of >articulation).
      >
      > I supposed that sounds from III. and IV. tyeller were fricatives, not
      > spirants (or plosives) - these are represented by the I. and II.
      > tyeller. This is what I started from. If this is not true then I was
      > no doubt mistaken.

      Sure, I'm sorry, 'fricatives' is what I meant (spirant is just an
      alternative but unusual term).

      suilaid
      mach
    • Arden R. Smith
      ... Spirant is less usual than fricative nowadays, but that wasn t always the case. Tolkien in fact regularly used spirant rather than fricative, as
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 11, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        Mach Hezan wrote:

        >Sure, I'm sorry, 'fricatives' is what I meant (spirant is just an
        >alternative but unusual term).

        "Spirant" is less usual than "fricative" nowadays, but that wasn't
        always the case. Tolkien in fact regularly used "spirant" rather
        than "fricative," as can be seen in Appendix E to _The Lord of the
        Rings_.

        --
        *********************************************************************
        Arden R. Smith erilaz@...

        Perilme metto aimaktur perperienta.
        --Elvish proverb
        *********************************************************************
      • Benct Philip Jonsson
        ... The mistake is the label labio-dental . Labio- means lip , and there is no lip-articulation involved in [t d s z ts]. In most Slavic languages these
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 12, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          At 13:39 11.11.2003, elfscript@yahoogroups.com wrote:
          >Message: 14
          > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:26:59 -0000
          > From: "Calwen Rudh" <calwen.rudh@...>
          >Subject: Re: What tengwa for a sound _ts_
          >
          >I wrote:
          > >> At the end, I decided to use thuule: _c_ in my language is a labio-
          > >>dental sound
          >
          >Mach wrote:
          > >I suppose this is a mistake, is it (I thought it were /ts/)?
          >
          >Originally I wrote:
          > >>>We have this sound in Czech (and other Slavic languages), writing
          > >>>it as _c_, spelling it as _ts_.
          >
          >So, no, this is not a mistake :).

          The mistake is the label "labio-dental". "Labio-" means
          'lip', and there is no lip-articulation involved in
          [t d s z ts]. In most Slavic languages these are simply
          dental or post-dental, while in English, as in most
          Romance and Germanic languages (though not Swedish :)
          these sounds are alveolar ('gum') sounds.
          Labio-dental refers to the articulation of [f v]
          in most languages, where the lower lip touches the
          upper teeth. BTW the English "th" sounds and
          the Castilian Spanish "z" are dental or even
          inter-dental (tongue between the teeth).'

          OK 'nuff of the phonetician's ramblings...


          /BP 8^)
          --
          B.Philip Jonsson mailto:melrochX@... (delete X)
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~__
          A h-ammen ledin i phith! \ \
          __ ____ ____ _____________ ____ __ __ __ / /
          \ \/___ \\__ \ /___ _____/\ \\__ \\ \ \ \\ \ / /
          / / / / / \ / /Melroch\ \_/ // / / // / / /
          / /___/ /_ / /\ \ / /'Aestan ~\_ // /__/ // /__/ /
          /_________//_/ \_\/ /Eowine __ / / \___/\_\\___/\_\
          Gwaedhvenn Angeliniel\ \______/ /a/ /_h-adar Merthol naun
          ~~~~~~~~~Kuinondil~~~\________/~~\__/~~~Noolendur~~~~~~
          || Lenda lenda pellalenda pellatellenda kuivie aiya! ||
          "A coincidence, as we say in Middle-Earth" (JRR Tolkien)
        • Calwen Rudh
          ... labio- ... writing ... Sure, sure, I did this one wrong. But as I found out, Czech _c_ is a voiceless sound and its voiced equivalent is ... tadaa ...:
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 13, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In elfscript@yahoogroups.com, Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@m...>
            wrote:
            > At 13:39 11.11.2003, elfscript@yahoogroups.com wrote:
            > >Message: 14
            > > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:26:59 -0000
            > > From: "Calwen Rudh" <calwen.rudh@s...>
            > >Subject: Re: What tengwa for a sound _ts_
            > >
            > >I wrote:
            > > >> At the end, I decided to use thuule: _c_ in my language is a
            labio-
            > > >>dental sound
            > >
            > >Mach wrote:
            > > >I suppose this is a mistake, is it (I thought it were /ts/)?
            > >
            > >Originally I wrote:
            > > >>>We have this sound in Czech (and other Slavic languages),
            writing
            > > >>>it as _c_, spelling it as _ts_.
            > >
            > >So, no, this is not a mistake :).
            >
            > The mistake is the label "labio-dental".

            Sure, sure, I did this one wrong. But as I found out, Czech _c_ is a
            voiceless sound and its voiced equivalent is ... tadaa ...: _dz_. :)

            I know I invented a wheel but since I have never studied such things
            I am really happy that I figured it out on my own and then to learn
            it was correct. :)

            Thanks anyway.
            Lucy
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.