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Re: tengwar spelling for anna and yanta

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  • mach
    ... As for the use of yanta: I recently thought about the following external development: First stage (early 30s): No yanta, consonantal _y_ is expressed by a
    Message 1 of 3 , Nov 11, 2003
      Arden R. Smith wrote:
      >Yanta is even more of a problem. It's a relic of an older system in
      >which /y/ was represented by yanta in all positions. [See my post
      >from 3 Jun 2002, Subject: [elfscript] úr (e) and yanta (was: Re:
      >úr >> úre ).]

      As for the use of yanta: I recently thought about the following external
      development:

      First stage (early 30s):
      No yanta, consonantal _y_ is expressed by a long carrier (in the English
      full writing modes of DTS 16, 17, 18, 23).

      Second stage (since 37):
      The long carrier is now used for _e_ (the sound of the _e_ in _merry_).
      Therefore, a new sign is introduced for consonantal _y_: yanta (in the
      English full writing mode of DTS 22).

      Maybe, short carrier and long carrier had become exchangeable, cf. DTS 24.

      As far as I know, the only later 'full writing' mode with a sign for
      consonantal _y_ is the Sindarin mode of the King's Letters, and there, it's
      yanta as well. So yanta could have remained Tolkien's full writing sign for
      consonantal _y_. However, the chart of the English vowels suggested in DTS
      15 (later than october 44) has yanta for _e_, yet that chart is crossed out
      and is not even used in DTS 15.

      Could it be possible that yanta from the (external) beginning was a sign
      used in 'full writing' modes?

      suilaid
      mach
    • Calwen Rudh
      ... there, it s ... sign for ... Just few ideas to puzzle it more :o)... : Question: does _y_ has a consonantal value in Sindarin? Answer: No, written as _y_
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 11, 2003
        > As far as I know, the only later 'full writing' mode with a sign for
        > consonantal _y_ is the Sindarin mode of the King's Letters, and
        there, it's
        > yanta as well. So yanta could have remained Tolkien's full writing
        sign for
        > consonantal _y_.

        Just few ideas to puzzle it more :o)... :

        Question: does _y_ has a consonantal value in Sindarin?
        Answer: No, written as _y_ in Latin, it is a vowel that was once a
        vowel combination of _iu_. This is a unique sound in Sindarin (what
        is interessting is that vowel _y_ is pronounced like _i_ with lips
        rounded to _u_ :o))) and has nothing in common with English initial
        _y_ (as in _young_).

        If you're looking for a sound like English initial consonantal _y_,
        this was in Sindarin 'transfered' to _iX-_, X being a vowel. This
        initial _i_ is represented by yanta in tehta mode for Sindarin (or
        tehta mode of Gondor, KLs), so yanta is then written as yanta tinco
        with A-tehta and tilde above (not under :) ) and I-tehta above a
        short carrier.

        You may say I invented the wheel :o) Just wanted to add few remarks.

        Suilad,
        Lucy
      • Arden R. Smith
        ... As you noted, yanta is not present in the earliest full writing modes for English (ca. 1931). It is, however, present in the earliest Feanorian modes for
        Message 3 of 3 , Nov 11, 2003
          Mach Hezan wrote:

          >Could it be possible that yanta from the (external) beginning was a sign
          >used in 'full writing' modes?

          As you noted, yanta is not present in the earliest full writing modes
          for English (ca. 1931). It is, however, present in the earliest
          Feanorian modes for Qenya (unpublished), some of which are full
          writing modes, but these examples are later, dating from the late
          1930s.

          It is also worth noting that in the late 1930s Tolkien regarded yanta
          as having been derived from the Rúmilian symbol for /y/, which it in
          fact resembles (see _Parma Eldalamberon_ #13, pp. 88-89). The
          Rúmilian symbol for /y/ dates back to the inception of that alphabet
          in 1919.

          Incidentally, it occurred to me that there's another way to deal with
          diphthongs in /i/ in a Quenya mode using yanta for /y/: put the
          tehta over the preceding tengwa rather than over the glide-tengwa.
          In such a mode _laita_ would be spelt lambe with a-tehta - yanta -
          tinco with a-tehta rather than lambe - yanta with a-tehta - tinco
          with a-tehta.

          --
          *********************************************************************
          Arden R. Smith erilaz@...

          Perilme metto aimaktur perperienta.
          --Elvish proverb
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